Left tilt or right tilt? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #1 of 36 Old 01-27-2008, 08:39 PM Thread Starter
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 13
View Jake's Photo Album My Photos
Left tilt or right tilt?

Table saw tilt, what is the best one, left or right tilt. Is there an advantage to the left tilt over the right?

Last edited by Jake; 01-27-2008 at 08:41 PM. Reason: incomplete
Jake is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 36 Old 01-27-2008, 09:08 PM
Cabinetmaker
 
skymaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zebulon, N.C.
Posts: 646
View skymaster's Photo Album My Photos
Jake: IF you do alot of long miter cuts than left is the only way to go.
Lots of reasons left is safer,better for miter cuts, other than that really doesnt make a lot of difference.
I have right tilt mainly cause I could not get a left and was really bummed out however I have use it every day now for close to 8 years and can honestly say I havent really had any issues that I thought I would. So miters YES left otherwise pick one. IF u have a choice of equal saws for equal price than go left
skymaster is offline  
post #3 of 36 Old 01-27-2008, 09:24 PM
Senior Member
 
daryl in nanoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Nanoose Bay Vancouver Island BC Canada
Posts: 512
View daryl in nanoose's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by skymaster View Post
Jake: IF you do alot of long miter cuts than left is the only way to go.
Lots of reasons left is safer,better for miter cuts, other than that really doesnt make a lot of difference.
I have right tilt mainly cause I could not get a left and was really bummed out however I have use it every day now for close to 8 years and can honestly say I havent really had any issues that I thought I would. So miters YES left otherwise pick one. IF u have a choice of equal saws for equal price than go left
I agree on this 110%
daryl in nanoose is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #4 of 36 Old 01-27-2008, 09:30 PM
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 19
View chris_klee's Photo Album My Photos
this is prolly a realy dumb question, but you mean the blade goes to the left like this: \ ?

i think my portable rigid saw is a left tilt and i didnt even realize they come the other way.
whay exactly is the advantage of the left tilt? why is it better?
chris_klee is offline  
post #5 of 36 Old 01-27-2008, 10:47 PM
Senior Member
 
daryl in nanoose's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Nanoose Bay Vancouver Island BC Canada
Posts: 512
View daryl in nanoose's Photo Album My Photos
One of the problems with right tilt is mitering longer stock. The blade pushes the stock into the fence which makes 1- a high probable chance of kick back and 2- scares the wood.
I hardly ever need a left tilt but if I had a choice I would chose the left tilt just for this reason.
My portable is left tilt to.
daryl in nanoose is offline  
post #6 of 36 Old 01-28-2008, 12:13 PM
Cabinetmaker
 
skymaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zebulon, N.C.
Posts: 646
View skymaster's Photo Album My Photos
The really stupid irony is this: ALL the small portable tablesaws are left tilt, they are also too small and too dangerous to do any mitering safely, Yes I have one also. Contractor saws, and most "normal" tablesaws which are used in shops where a contractor most likely would miter are of course RIGHT handed and too dangerous to miter on. Just plain stupid, that said most all tablesaws now offer either left or right hand tilt, finally some sense!
As I said if all things, price etc are equal go Left it is a much more versatile saw.
skymaster is offline  
post #7 of 36 Old 01-28-2008, 12:30 PM
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 225
View niki's Photo Album My Photos
Well, in Europe we use only right tilt blades and there is no any problem with kickbacks but of course, we use also the riving knife, "short fence" and "low fence"

On the drawing below, you can see how the British are teaching the correct way to make a bevel cut, and believe me that the USA, OSHA safety regulations looks like the "Wild west" comparing to the British safety regulations that are very much influenced by the "Unions" that wants safe working environment for the employees and don't care how much it will cost....

niki

niki is offline  
post #8 of 36 Old 01-28-2008, 12:45 PM
Cabinetmaker
 
skymaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zebulon, N.C.
Posts: 646
View skymaster's Photo Album My Photos
niki; WHAT? You have got to be kidding! That is the most dangerous thing i have seen in years! You are using a fence on the WASTE side of a cut! I can only presume they have an ambulance stationed at every tablesaw that is used that way..
You are going to pinch that sucker,then stuff it into your gut, take out anyone nearby, not to mention wrecking the machine.
NFW
Jack
skymaster is offline  
post #9 of 36 Old 01-28-2008, 01:48 PM
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 225
View niki's Photo Album My Photos
Hi Jack
I'm not kidding, that is the way that we do it across the pond and I don't see any danger...
As I said, we are also using the riving knife and short/low fence.
The riving knife, will keep the wood from touching the blade and the short fence will prevent any kickback in case of internal stresses that might be released.

As I said, the British are very strict with safety regulations...if an inspector will see you (not as an amateur but registered business) working without riving knife and blade guard (even for non through cuts like dado)...you are out of business...

Just for an example; from 2008, all the woodworking and metal working cutting machines shall have to be equipped with a brake that will stop the rotation within 10 seconds (and they mean also all the older machinery) and nobody cares how much it will cost...

Regards
niki
niki is offline  
post #10 of 36 Old 01-28-2008, 05:31 PM
Cabinetmaker
 
skymaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Zebulon, N.C.
Posts: 646
View skymaster's Photo Album My Photos
Niki; man nothing personal but you guys are nutz, there is NO guidance to that rip other than the cutoff!!!!!!!!!!!!! Alt least put the damn fence on the LEFT side of the pc. That is the safe way to do it with a right tilt blade.
If anybody in a shop over here were to do that his Butt would be bouncing off the street for a week Instant fired
skymaster is offline  
post #11 of 36 Old 01-28-2008, 06:24 PM
Senior Member from MN
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 221
View Daveb's Photo Album My Photos
Niki,

I am curious about the low height fence and how it, with the knife, avoids binding and kickbacks. I think you know exactly what you are talking about. Does the low fence allow the top of the cutoff piece to rotate slightly away from the blade, thereby relieving pressure against the blade? Or what is the theory?
Daveb is offline  
post #12 of 36 Old 01-28-2008, 10:37 PM
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 225
View niki's Photo Album My Photos
Skymaster
I'll try to make for you a test cut "in front of the cameras" if the weather will let me to take the car out of the garage.

I know that it's very difficult to accept the right tilt blade but I think that it's because most of the American TS's are not equipped with riving knife and short fence and even the splitter is many times "still packed in original plastic bag"...

Daveb
The low height fence is only to give you a good access for the push stick when you make shallow cuts and/or to avoid the blade to come in contact with the fence when it's tilted for bevel cut.

You can try it by just making an L shape from two plywood scrapes and clamping it to the original fence. You will see how convenient it is to use a push stick when the fence is set 1" from the blade (you can even use you fingers to push the wood because the palm has a space but please don't do it).

The short fence is the one that in conjunction with the riving knife will prevent the kick back.
I'm talking about solid wood that might have internal stresses that will be released after the wood passes the front teeth of the blade.

The riving knife will keep the wood from coming in contact with the up-rising teeth of the blade but, if because of some released stresses, the wood will bend into the fence....well, the fence is stronger (clamped to the table) so the wood will press on the blade and even with the riving knife, you might get a kickback.

By using "short fence" that extends only 1"~2" beyond the front teeth of the blade, even if the wood will bend, there is no fence to press against so, no kickback.

Did you noticed that those "safety fanatic" British (and all EU) do not require Anti-kickback pawls...maybe, they know why...

If you like to see the "short fence" in action, please have a look here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7QXIN2X8-w&feature=user

I'm adding a few pics of the fence on my TS (Metabo)
Note; the fence can be extended to full length for cutting man-made boards that does not have any internal stresses.

Regards
niki










niki is offline  
post #13 of 36 Old 01-29-2008, 05:57 AM
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 225
View niki's Photo Album My Photos
Hi Skymaster

As I promised I took some pics "in action"....did you talked to the "weather Gods"


That's the first method






When I want to cut at the very edge, I'm using the "thin strips sled"












Or, the vacuum sled






If the board is wide and long, I'm using the "feather rollers"





Regards
niki
niki is offline  
post #14 of 36 Old 01-29-2008, 08:02 AM
Senior Member
 
vinnyb76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: grimsby england
Posts: 113
View vinnyb76's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
niki; WHAT? You have got to be kidding! That is the most dangerous thing i have seen in years! You are using a fence on the WASTE side of a cut! I can only presume they have an ambulance stationed at every tablesaw that is used that way..
You are going to pinch that sucker,then stuff it into your gut, take out anyone nearby, not to mention wrecking the machine.
NFW
Jack
as a british woodworker i can say this is the only way to go in safety terms. the waste is`nt on fence side its the opposite and as nikki rightly pointed out the low fence position allows you use the pushstick on the fence side, plus for the thin strips prevents the blade hitting the fence when the blade is tilted
vinnyb76 is offline  
post #15 of 36 Old 01-29-2008, 08:23 AM
Senior Member
 
woodman42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: College Station, Texas
Posts: 1,112
View woodman42's Photo Album My Photos
Sorry Niki, but I have to agree with skymaster on this one.
I have had that cut off peice come back and leave a nasty bruise a little to close to the business area.
I have also seen a right tilt send a cutoff about 75ft across the shop.
From my experiences, I will stick to a left tilt saw.

Did you say tool sale?
woodman42 is offline  
post #16 of 36 Old 01-29-2008, 09:21 AM
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 225
View niki's Photo Album My Photos
Vinnyb76
Thank you for your supportive reply

Woodman
No problem at all
Our saws in Europe are equipped with riving knives and Low/High fences so that's the way we go.

I would not dare to cut that way without, at least, a riving knife.

Most of the American designed table saws are equipped with splitter that sits too far behind the blade (if it "sits" at all) and long high fence so for you guys the best way to stay away from kickbacks is left tilt.

But even with left tilt blade, I think that, if there is no something very close to the rear teeth of the blade...and I mean, riving knife...you'll still have the danger that the workpiece will pinch the rear teeth and kickback...I don't see any difference if the blade is at 90 or at 45.

If you have seen a workpiece after kickback (I've seen it only on pictures), you'll see that the teeth created kind of a quarter circle marks...that means that the workpiece was lifted on top of the blade and than turned counter-clockwise, while the pivot is the fence, and thrown back while continuing to turn.

The only thing that can prevent this initial pinching is the riving knife that sits very close (1/8") to the blade.

Please have a look at this video to see it in fast and slow motion
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/910584...demonstration/

I did not mention the "help" of the long fence to the kickback because, it's relevant only in case of problematic wood with internal stresses...but you never know if the wood is "normal" or "problematic" until the UFO's are flying...

Regards
niki
niki is offline  
post #17 of 36 Old 01-29-2008, 09:57 AM
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5
View Gurnett's Photo Album My Photos
Just thought I'd mention that I live in sweden, although the table saw I bought was imported from England and it is left tilt. So the comment that europe uses right tilt is incorrect. One thing that is different within the EU is that dado blades on table saws are illegal. which in theory means that the riving knife never needs to be removed. From a personal point of view, I would never cut a miter with a right tilt blade (just looks to scary)
Gurnett is offline  
post #18 of 36 Old 01-29-2008, 10:32 AM
Senior Member
 
vinnyb76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: grimsby england
Posts: 113
View vinnyb76's Photo Album My Photos
sorry to disagree gurnett but on our saw its right tilt which is made by scm which is italian( ithink) so europe does use right tilt,not forgetting also that the british laws are different to other european countries. im not sure about the laws specifically to left and right tilt but heres the basic laws of a table saw.
also when you crosscut apice on a 45 degree angle with a left tilt saw that means the blades pointing towoards the hand plus if you slipped on the floor while using theres more chance of injury so that seems more scary to me , i guess its everywheres got its own ways of doing things.
vinnyb76 is offline  
post #19 of 36 Old 01-29-2008, 10:55 AM
Guest
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 5
View Gurnett's Photo Album My Photos
If you read the original comment you'll see that Niki claims that Europe uses ONLY right tilt. My point was that this is not true. you can buy and use left tilt saws in Europe aswell as right tilt.
Gurnett is offline  
post #20 of 36 Old 01-29-2008, 02:52 PM
Guest
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 225
View niki's Photo Album My Photos
Hi Gurnet
I apologize, I was sure that all the table saws are right tilt because those that I know are all right tilt and because of the HSE Woodworking sheet No 16 (Vinnyb76 link) and because of the training sheet at this website...
http://www.woodwise.co.uk/training/1...-guarding.aspx

Anyway, it does not change the fact that right tilt blade is safe to use.

About the dado blade being illegal...I'm not so sure about that, as I know, as long as the blade guard is installed, it is ok to use dado blade...it was up to 15.5mm and as I understand it's going to be (or it's already) 3/4" as you can read it here
http://www.greatbritishwoodshop.co.u...aspx?tabid=170

That's the only reference that I have (HSE regulation and/or the EU safety regulations booklets are not free as the American ones).

Regards
niki
niki is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Right-Tilt or Left-Tilt Tablesaw blackcruzer Power Tools & Machinery 9 12-26-2008 03:36 PM
Left tilt or regular? arthur dent Power Tools & Machinery 18 08-03-2008 01:51 PM
Table saw tilt AndyJ General Woodworking Discussion 3 07-08-2008 10:52 AM
Left or Right of the blade? jsosa Power Tools & Machinery 4 04-27-2008 11:39 PM
New from Left Coast... Hack New Member Introductions 6 10-10-2007 12:23 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome