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post #1 of 38 Old 09-06-2015, 08:55 AM Thread Starter
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Jointer woes

I have a fairly new Delta 6" jointer. I am trying to jointer some fairly large boards to build a new outfeed table/workbench.

The boards are soft maple, approximately 2" x 6" x 6'.

I am consistently getting a cup on the side I am jointing. I have watched about a dozen jointer set up videos and attempted to assure the infeed and outfeed tables are coplanar. I have an A-Line dial indicator set-up and using it the blades appear square to the table.

One of the set-up videos suggested lowering the outfeed table slightly to correct cupping. I have tried that with no apparent effect.

I have not experienced this problem with smaller (lighter) boards. I will certainly state that the size and weight of these boards makes handling them on the jointer a challenge.

Jointer wizards, I am open to any suggestions you have for me.

Thanks
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post #2 of 38 Old 09-06-2015, 09:27 AM
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The outfeed table should be adjusted level with the cutting edge of the knives and left there. You should never adjust the outfeed table for an application.

If you are getting some cupping trying to flatten your 2x6's it sounds like the knives are not installed right. It sounds like the left side of one knife is higher than the right and another knife is just the opposite. The knives need to be installed level with the rear table all the way across.
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post #3 of 38 Old 09-06-2015, 12:04 PM
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Please describe exactly the type of cupping you are experiencing.

George
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post #4 of 38 Old 09-06-2015, 12:09 PM
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A few roller stands on both ends of the jointer to handle the weight and help balance the pressure of the wood on your infeed and outfeed would likely be a benefit going by what you said about the smaller boards being no problem.
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post #5 of 38 Old 09-07-2015, 11:29 AM
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Best if you can lengthen your table, roller stands help, I prefer to attach rollers to the jointer to get them exactly level with the tables, infeed and outfeed.

“Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.”
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post #6 of 38 Old 09-07-2015, 02:00 PM
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Okay, seems to me some clarification of terms is in order. To me, "cupping" of a board refers to an inward arcing of the surface across the width of the board- that is, there's something of a trough running the length of the board. The only way I see this happening with jointing is if the blades are curved instead of straight across, so more of the center of the board width is shaved than the edges; replacing the blades should solve that. If the knives are poorly set, as Steve Neul suggested, that would create the opposite effect, i.e., more wood removed from the edges, creating a mound in the center. To me, that's not called "cupping".

If the inward arcing occurs along the length of the board, I think a more accurate term is "bowing" (shaped like *ahem* a bow). That is where issues of table geometry- coplanarity, outfeed elevation with respect to knives, etc., come into play. I suspect that your issue is with bowing.

Given the finding that lighter boards aren't a problem, one thing to check is whether there is any sloppiness in the table dovetail ways; you might need to tighten or adjust the gib screws. You could also check whether the beds are coplanar while you have some heavy weights sitting on the ends of each bed- simulating a heavy board.
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post #7 of 38 Old 09-07-2015, 04:12 PM
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terms are important!

Cupping is across the width and occurs naturally from drying. Bowing can occur naturally, OR from a jointer that is improperly set up. It can't occur from bad technique unless the work is not supported at the height of the outfeed table and that's really more about the set up.

The outfeed table height must be level across the height of the knives as close as possible and that's one reason they are adjustable... to dial it right on.

Sometimes a cabinet maker will want to put a little curve in a board for spring back when it's glued up. It's a pretty sophisticated method in my book, so I don't do it. I hate roller stands because they are so easily knocked over. I removed the rollers from mine and replaced them with a 2 x 12" plank which I level out to the outfeed table. Worked like a charm!


The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #8 of 38 Old 09-08-2015, 03:57 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
Please describe exactly the type of cupping you are experiencing.

George
The cupping I am referring to is best described by visualizing a 2 x 6 laid on it 6" face. If you measure the 6" face at each end you find it measures 6" but in the center the board is only 5 7/8" wide. There is a curve beginning at the end of the board that smoothly reduces the width of the board until at the middle of the board.
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post #9 of 38 Old 09-08-2015, 04:00 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankC View Post
Best if you can lengthen your table, roller stands help, I prefer to attach rollers to the jointer to get them exactly level with the tables, infeed and outfeed.
Several suggestions to use some type of auxillary support for the heavy boards. I have tried this. It appears to be very very difficult to get a roller support coplanar with a jointer:)
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post #10 of 38 Old 09-08-2015, 04:05 PM Thread Starter
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Okay, seems to me some clarification of terms is in order. To me, "cupping" of a board refers to an inward arcing of the surface across the width of the board- that is, there's something of a trough running the length of the board. The only way I see this happening with jointing is if the blades are curved instead of straight across, so more of the center of the board width is shaved than the edges; replacing the blades should solve that. If the knives are poorly set, as Steve Neul suggested, that would create the opposite effect, i.e., more wood removed from the edges, creating a mound in the center. To me, that's not called "cupping".
This is not what I am experiencing.


If the inward arcing occurs along the length of the board, I think a more accurate term is "bowing" (shaped like *ahem* a bow). That is where issues of table geometry- coplanarity, outfeed elevation with respect to knives, etc., come into play. I suspect that your issue is with bowing.
Bowing, for me is a protruding curve, the opposite of a cup. I have decribed my problem visually in another post.

Given the finding that lighter boards aren't a problem, one thing to check is whether there is any sloppiness in the table dovetail ways; you might need to tighten or adjust the gib screws. You could also check whether the beds are coplanar while you have some heavy weights sitting on the ends of each bed- simulating a heavy board.[/QUOTE]
I will test the tables stability as you suggest. The significant weight of the boards is some kind of contributor to the problem.

Thanks for your reply!
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post #11 of 38 Old 09-08-2015, 04:35 PM
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What you are getting is a result of a long board on a short table, as you feed it in there is extra weight at the opposite end so less pressure on the knives, toward the middle the board it is balanced, easy to put more pressure on the knives, as it continues there is more weight on lead edge raising board off knives.

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post #12 of 38 Old 09-08-2015, 06:53 PM
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Or the long board has an existing curve the length of it prior to jointing and the board ends extend past the ends of the in/outfeed tables. When this occurs one can hear a difference in the sound the jointer makes taking a deeper bite into the board.

Work smart not hard!
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post #13 of 38 Old 09-08-2015, 07:13 PM
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exactly!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Froglips View Post
Several suggestions to use some type of auxillary support for the heavy boards. I have tried this. It appears to be very very difficult to get a roller support coplanar with a jointer:)

This is why I did what I did with the plank and 2 roller stands. It's a cheap solution and very workable for either face jointing or edge jointing boards that are over 4 ft long. A 6 ft X 2" thick board is unmanageable on a short bed jointer. You need outfeed support.

The legs of the roller stands can be shimmed with wedges to get the plank coplaner. The heights of the rollers are infinitely adjustable with the locking screw.
You will need an accurate straight edge or bar to make this work however. It's really a no brainer.

I also edge joint a whole lot of 1" boards using a table saw and a straight line jig for the very reasons the jointer is not suitable without a support setup. This takes time and unless I'm face jointing I don't want to take the time for the roller and plank setup.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #14 of 38 Old 09-08-2015, 07:54 PM
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It may be the board is too long for the jointer but it could also be the rear table is too low. Using a piece of wood about 2' long run it a few inches through the jointer backwards and see if it cuts anything off. If it does then the table is too low. Just be careful doing this it doesn't pull you into it. It should just barely touch the wood.
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post #15 of 38 Old 09-09-2015, 10:24 AM
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I've jointed 10' long boards on my 6" jointer with a couple of roller stands at both ends. If the jointer is tuned, it just becomes a matter of technique. The cut portion absolutely has to lay flat on the outfeed table. As long as that happens, the board comes out straight. Longer tables obviously make this much, much easier, but it's ultimately your job to make sure the board stays pinned flat to the table. The rollers should just keep it from sagging.
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post #16 of 38 Old 09-09-2015, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickDIY View Post
I've jointed 10' long boards on my 6" jointer with a couple of roller stands at both ends. If the jointer is tuned, it just becomes a matter of technique. The cut portion absolutely has to lay flat on the outfeed table. As long as that happens, the board comes out straight. Longer tables obviously make this much, much easier, but it's ultimately your job to make sure the board stays pinned flat to the table. The rollers should just keep it from sagging.
Agree, it is partly how the machine is set up and partly operator technique, both have to be in play, the extension rollers make it easier for the operator to do his part.

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post #17 of 38 Old 09-09-2015, 11:17 AM
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My little 6" jointer I just built an extension on it for longer wood.
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post #18 of 38 Old 09-09-2015, 11:50 AM
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If I have a long board with a crown in it I get rid of one bad side on the TS 1st then pretty the edge up on the Jointer.

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post #19 of 38 Old 09-09-2015, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghidrah View Post
If I have a long board with a crown in it I get rid of one bad side on the TS 1st then pretty the edge up on the Jointer.
Sometimes I draw a pencil mark for the straight edge and go back to the jointer. Starting in the center of the cup, shave off one end and then the other until until I reach my straight edge line. Then, one last shave from end to end removing only a smidgin to reach the pencil line.
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post #20 of 38 Old 09-09-2015, 04:56 PM
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Exactly

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Originally Posted by Toolman50 View Post
Sometimes I draw a pencil mark for the straight edge and go back to the jointer. Starting in the center of the cup, shave off one end and then the other until until I reach my straight edge line. Then, one last shave from end to end removing only a smidgin to reach the pencil line.

Treat the jointer like a giant hand plane. You have to sight your boards for curves and straight before you start jointing. If you have a reference straight edge and want top make a mark to plane to that's fine.

The jointer is NOT a one pass does it all machine. It needs the operator's help. If you plane/joint in from one end then flip it around and plane in from the opposite end .... eventually you will have removed the curve from the board and THEN you can run a full length pass. I do this all the time. Use the tool like you own and understand it.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 09-09-2015 at 07:19 PM.
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