Jet Tablesaw- 120 to 220, less power now??? - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 12-18-2007, 08:21 PM Thread Starter
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Jet Tablesaw- 120 to 220, less power now???

I just converted my Jet contractors special edition table saw from factory 120 to 220 using the provided wiring diagram (it was a little funky because in the diagram there were 4 posts and in reality there were only 3 so i put the wires from the 3rd and 4th in the picture all on the 3rd) Anyways, i fire it up and I have significantly less power now. Any suggestions on how to fix this/why this would happen?
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post #2 of 26 Old 12-19-2007, 08:42 AM
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I'd guess that it has to do with the two wires that you put on the single post, but that's a pure guess.

Personally, I'm not an electrician, so if it was my saw, I'd have a simple equation to deal with this issue:

(4 wires + 3 posts) - power loss
(unclear instructions) x 220 volts = Call Jet Customer Service ASAP!



Last edited by Buffalo Bilious; 12-19-2007 at 08:50 AM.
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post #3 of 26 Old 12-19-2007, 11:24 AM
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Show me a picture and I can probably help you. Otherwise call JET and ask. Their phone tech support number is 1.800.274.6846 and they answer it from 7:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. CST
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post #4 of 26 Old 12-19-2007, 02:18 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replys. Here are some pictures. THe first is the wiring diagram:



The next 3 photos are how it originally was, 115 volts:




The final picture here shows it how i rewired it: [keep in mind i tried both putting the 2 wires on the middle post on the same screw and on top/bottom screws(how it is in the picture) and had the same result]


Thanks in advance!!!!

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post #5 of 26 Old 12-19-2007, 02:49 PM
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....

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post #6 of 26 Old 12-19-2007, 02:54 PM
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why change

[quote=nitro3421;16933]I just converted my Jet contractors special edition table saw from factory 120 to 220 using the provided wiring diagram (it was a little funky because in the diagram there were 4 posts and in reality there were only 3 so i put the wires from the 3rd and 4th in the picture all on the 3rd) Anyways, i fire it up and I have significantly less power now. Any suggestions on how to fix this/why this would happen? Why the change I have a 120 v that can be 220 I have much power on 120v with plenty power. quote]
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post #7 of 26 Old 12-19-2007, 03:00 PM Thread Starter
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[quote=raskgle;17005]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nitro3421 View Post
I just converted my Jet contractors special edition table saw from factory 120 to 220 using the provided wiring diagram (it was a little funky because in the diagram there were 4 posts and in reality there were only 3 so i put the wires from the 3rd and 4th in the picture all on the 3rd) Anyways, i fire it up and I have significantly less power now. Any suggestions on how to fix this/why this would happen? Why the change I have a 120 v that can be 220 I have much power on 120v with plenty power. quote]
For a few reasons: my 120 fuse in the garage is crappy and always blows. I also cut through lots of thick stock and the saw gets bogged down so i want more power
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post #8 of 26 Old 12-19-2007, 04:00 PM
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Nitro,

It looks like you have it wired right to me. Red and gray together for 240v is what the schematic calls for. Most motors that are multi-tap like this simply have two sets of 120v windings, All you are doing when you move jumpers, or connect/disconnect wires like this on a multi-tap motor is chainging the windings to series (for 240v) or parallel (for 120v).
About the only advantage a 240v motor will have over a 120v motor is if the motor is a long way (motor sees a large voltage drop due to a long wire which is more resistance) from the power source.

If you are close to the power source the power is going to be negligble. If you are say 75' away then you would definately notice more power under a load with 240v.

I assume you changed the wiring in the breaker box and that the motor is getting both legs? i mean, if not, you are simply feeding a 240v motor 120v and it won't cut veneer hardly.
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post #9 of 26 Old 12-19-2007, 04:10 PM Thread Starter
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For the breaker box, i am running on a totally different (wired 220, its actually a dryer plug) different fuse. I guess i feel like i did something wrong since my saw is significantly less powerful now. I can barely cut through plywood... It's only about 25' to the plug. I know the 220 extension cord works fine since i use it to run my jointer, which has plenty of power.

Could there be anything else i have to do to switch this saw over to 220? Would the fact that i just put a dryer plug on the old power cord(instead of replacing the power cord with something beefier) have anything to do with this power loss?
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post #10 of 26 Old 12-19-2007, 05:06 PM
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hard to guess without seeing it. Do you have a voltmeter? Make sure you are getting 240v (or whatever it actually reads anything around 220 to 250 is cool)? When you say it is wired on a " .. totally different fuse . . . " I don't really follow you. make sure you don't have both legs (both hot wires) wires from your cord wired into the same leg in the box. If you are picking up L1 from one breaker and L2 from another somewhere else in the box, you could be getting the same leg. Panels boxes have "busses" that alternate each leg so that one breaker will not be the same leg as the one right below it. This way when you insert a regular 240 breaker you are getting both legs.

IOW don't try to pick up one leg from any random location and the other from another empty slot using two singles, if you know what I mean. You can do this, and I have for some temporary reasons before, but you must understand what you are doing and it's best if you have a volt meter to make sure you are getting 240v to the load.

If you are getting the proper voltage, check for loose connections. make sure you always go slow during all electrical troubkeshooting processes and never get in a hurry " to get it fixed so I can get back to woodworking!" Electrcute yourself good enough and the only woodworking left will be someone building your casket. Turn off the power when you are checking for loose connections. They are more common than you thik and they can cause this very symptom.
Also you could check for a shunt, which is a partial "short" to ground but you need to uunderstand what's going on when you do. Yo uhave to isolate everything. Unplug the cord. Disconnect all the motor wiring, take all the wiring nuts off and seperate the wires, and read every wire to ground to make sure there is no path from any wiring to ground where there shouldn't be.
If you check all that and still have problems, you could call Jet and ask then for the wiring resistance readings you should see from the windings. They should be able to give you (in Ohms) the readings that your Ohmeter can check to make sure you don't have a shunt in the windings themselves anywhere.

Worst case scenario rewire back to 120v where you had more power until you can get an electrician to come over and troubleshoot it for you.

HTH.
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post #11 of 26 Old 12-19-2007, 09:01 PM
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Switching over to 220v will not increase the power of the motor. If it is a 2HP motor that is what it is. The input voltage doesn't matter. You'll be drawing 12.4 amps on 120 and 6.2 on 220, but that is on 2 legs so you double it anyway and you still draw the same current. It sounds like the dryer outlet may be wire wrong, both on the same leg.

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
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post #12 of 26 Old 12-19-2007, 09:53 PM
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okay, I looked at the pictures and looked again. It appears to me that you are missing a wire. 220v requires 4 wires. 2 hots, 1 neutral, and a ground. I only see a hot (black), and neutral (white), and a ground (green) going into the junction box. I could be wrong because I'm only looking at the pics. Your wiring of the motor looks to be correct, I just think your missing a wire on your feed. let us all know when you find out.
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post #13 of 26 Old 12-19-2007, 10:13 PM
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There are 3 wire and 4 wire 220vac systems The 3 wire has 2 hots and a neutral, the 4 wire adds the ground. In a residential system the ground and the neutral are essentially the same. They both come off the bar. The difference is that the neutral will carry current and the ground should not.

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post #14 of 26 Old 12-19-2007, 10:37 PM
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Leo, I know what your saying but look at the feed to the box. I see a black through the switch series with the red. The white is the neutral, and the ground is grounded. If one is grounded, you must have another wire.
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post #15 of 26 Old 12-19-2007, 10:51 PM
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Yes, I see what you mean. And I agree. There needs to be some major changes in the design of the circuitry. If you are using 220 vac you will need a double pole switch to shut down both hots. You will need to get rid of the chassey ground as this should be the neutral. I just assumed he would know to do this. Sounds like he needs a qualified electrician. But as I said, it doesn't matter what voltage he uses on the motor, its rated HP is going to be the same.

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
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post #16 of 26 Old 12-20-2007, 11:19 AM
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Hard dog, look at it again, the black is coming straight from the power box (we assume) to the switch, and coming out as red. The white is also coming in straight from the power box (again, we have to assume) so it is wired correctly, presuming he has both wires, one on each bus, at the box. I do see why it is throwing you but i believe it is wired correctly, assuming that both the black (L1 let's call it) and the white (L2 let's call it) are coming in from the box. The switch is simply breaking one leg. the color does not matter.

As Leo says, and as I said, unless there is a long run of wire to the motor, the HP is the same. However a real long run will effect a 120V motor more significantly than a 240v (often errouneously referred to as 220v) motor, and that power loss will be more noticeable ina 120v motor.

Last edited by TexasTimbers; 12-20-2007 at 11:24 AM.
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post #17 of 26 Old 12-20-2007, 11:44 AM
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220 volt needs only 2 wires, you should have a third for ground
for safetys sake, but it'll run with only the two.

You can't measure 220 volts anywhere,
it's two independent 110 volt wires.
(that are out of phase with each other.)
There is no single wire carrying 220 volts.
Each wire has to come from a different buss in the
power panel. They can't both come from a breaker
on the same buss bar. Check and make sure,
most buss bars jump back and forth so the breakers
can be side by side and still on seperate buss bars.
Sounds like you have both wires off the same buss bar
so they're not out of phase with each other.

JC

Last edited by JCCLARK; 12-20-2007 at 11:47 AM.
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post #18 of 26 Old 12-20-2007, 12:34 PM
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You will read 240 ( or thereabouts) volts across both legs if it is wired properly.

A chassis ground is absolutely essential for operator safety. Should the motor, or any wiring short to the chassis then the amperage (which is what kills not voltage) will take the path of least resistance, the grounding wire, and save the operator. If there s no grounding wire back to the panel (to trip the breaker0 then the path of least resistance can become the operator and that's what will ruin your day.
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post #19 of 26 Old 12-20-2007, 02:27 PM
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txtimbers, I still think you need a neutral, in the middle, assuming both L1 and L2 are hot. I've been wrong before and I wear a thick skin. If I am, so be it. I really would like to know the outcome of this. So, Nitro, make sure you tell us what became of this.
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post #20 of 26 Old 12-20-2007, 02:45 PM
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There is no neutral on 220. The male plug on on a 220 circuit has the same number of prongs as 110 but both are hot (and in a different phase), the third prong is the ground. On 110, one prong is hot, one neutral and one ground.

I'm going through this with my jointer right now, As you can see on another thread, I wired it back to 110 and started popping breakers so this thread is interesting to me.

Good luck
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