Help w/ bandsaw? (unusually slipping) - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 20 Old 09-27-2017, 06:03 PM Thread Starter
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Help w/ bandsaw? (unusually slipping)

Greetings,
I was working on a project today which the only tool I own that could do the job was a bandsaw. I cut a few pieces of wood, then the blade popped off. I've changed the blade many times before ... so I just put it back on. But it just kept popping off! My father, neighbor, and I accumulated around 4 hours trying to get the blade to stay on. Adjusted all the guides but no luck! It was bad enough we eventually gave up and stopped working.



I will be referencing the image above to describe the issue. My bandsaw has three wheels. It was passed down from my grandfather, to my father, to me. Pretty old and worn. For whatever reason, the blade creeps forward on the green (bottom right) wheel regardless of adjustment. We were unable to turn the wheels more than half way before the blade would fall off. We cannot adjust the wheels in or out. We tried a new blade. But it appears the red (top) wheel is out further than the green (bottom right) wheel. The blade does not creep forward on the other two wheels.

We are really at a loss for options so I thought I'd ask for suggestions. Is it time for a new bandsaw?
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post #2 of 20 Old 09-27-2017, 08:45 PM
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The blade popping off is usually a characteristic of three wheel bandsaws. You should still be able to adjust the tracking enough to use it. There should be a knob on it somewhere where you can adjust the blade enough to get the job done. It just may work you overtime adjusting it back and forth in order to do it. If it doesn't you should look at the tires on the saw to see if there is any damage which may cause a tracking problem.
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post #3 of 20 Old 09-27-2017, 09:08 PM
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What model and brand of saw?

Quote:
Originally Posted by datguy.dev View Post
Greetings,......


I will be referencing the image above to describe the issue. My bandsaw has three wheels. It was passed down from my grandfather, to my father, to me. Pretty old and worn. For whatever reason, the blade creeps forward on the green (bottom right) wheel regardless of adjustment. We were unable to turn the wheels more than half way before the blade would fall off. We cannot adjust the wheels in or out. We tried a new blade. But it appears the red (top) wheel is out further than the green (bottom right) wheel. The blade does not creep forward on the other two wheels.

We are really at a loss for options so I thought I'd ask for suggestions. Is it time for a new bandsaw?
The top wheel is adjustable. There is a knob right behind the wheel possibly with a lock nut, that when you turn it in CW, it will tilt the wheel out at the bottom... if I recall correctly. Yes, 3 wheel saws have tracking issues, but you have proved it can be a working machine from years of previous use.

Post photos of the inside and the back of the saw so we can better offer advice. :smile3:

One further bit of "advice". Grasp all the wheels firmly and yank them in or out to see if there is any play in their shafts. If there is play then shimming or washers may take up the slack.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 09-27-2017 at 09:11 PM.
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post #4 of 20 Old 09-28-2017, 01:03 AM Thread Starter
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Yeah, I tend to break things. :) But I will post pictures tomorrow as it's night time here. (The bandsaw is in a locked room only accessible from the outside of house. It's the "Wood cutting room.")

I surely hope a fix is as easy as turning a few "knobs." There is one knob for the tensioner on the top. Then 1 in the back to adjust the height of the top guides (up or down). Lastly, there are 2 other knobs under the cutting area to adjust that cutting area or plane where the blade runs through. Wherever it is adjusted, its well hidden. The funny part is we still have the manual and had no luck.

Thanks for the advice.
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post #5 of 20 Old 09-28-2017, 08:24 AM
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If it's that old, check for play in the bearings, both lateral and lineal. I'd also be suspect of the tires being hardened from age.

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post #6 of 20 Old 09-28-2017, 11:33 AM
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agreed, look up adjusting the tracking, and try a new blade.
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post #7 of 20 Old 09-28-2017, 03:41 PM
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3 wheel bandsaw upper wheel assembly

From ebay, this is a upper wheel assembly from a Delta Rockwell bandsaw, 3 wheel possibly...?


http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delta-Rockwe...gAAOSwFJBZQFy5

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #8 of 20 Old 09-28-2017, 05:27 PM
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As you try to find the correct setting, unplug the bandsaw and use your hand to rotate the wheel while adjusting the top wheel. If the bearings aren't damaged and there's no play, you should be able to make adjustments to get the blade tracking correctly. Once you get the blade tracking consistently by hand, then you can turn on the power.
Once you have the blade tracking correctly under power and running freely then you can start making further adjustments to get it tracking under a load (actually sawing).

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #9 of 20 Old 09-28-2017, 06:18 PM Thread Starter
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I found where to adjust the tracking. It's a screw on the back. My father and I tried again now having the option to adjust the tracking. Even with adjusting the tracking to the extreme right or left produces the same results of the blade immediately slipping off of the bottom right. Same for slight angles and middle. Tried brand new blades both slim and thick.

We do turn it by hand. A half turn of any wheel is enough to make the blade fall off. It's very hard to adjust given that we can't turn the wheels much.

I took off all the wheels and greased them up. There are no bearings. It's simply a metal pole, metal bushing, and slip ring.



Here are the images of the bandsaw: (Craftsman 11" Mo: 315.214500)
Gallery: https://imgur.com/a/pRErM

Thanks everyone for your efforts and advice up to this point. I think we may need a local professional to look at it.

Last edited by datguy.dev; 09-28-2017 at 06:29 PM.
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post #10 of 20 Old 09-28-2017, 07:12 PM
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what happens ...

When you screw in this knob for tracking can you notice any difference in the angle of the wheel from top to bottom. I doubt if it moves right to left, which would be unlike any tracking adjustment I've ever seen....?

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 09-28-2017 at 10:03 PM. Reason: 6 typos!
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post #11 of 20 Old 09-28-2017, 09:49 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
When you screw in this know for tracking can you notice any differenc in the angle of the wheel fro top to bottom. I dopubt if it moves righ to left, which would be unlike any tracing adjustment I've ever seen....?
[IMG]https://i.imgur.com/W1hNrIE.jpg[IMG]
By left or right, I meant the way the screw in turned. It is angling the wheel and not moving it's x axis; so to speak.

In theory, one extreme should produce the opposite affect of the other setting. Yet, in this case, they did not which I find extremely confusing.

Side note, if you look at the last image in the gallery. The belt to the motor creeps forward, just like the blade, sometimes. I'm assuming this is normal if the blade gets stuck it can pop off? It something we've noticed and push it back on sometimes. It seems to be in good shape though.

Last edited by datguy.dev; 09-28-2017 at 09:55 PM.
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post #12 of 20 Old 09-29-2017, 03:01 AM
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You will have to start from zero

You had the saw working satisfactorily right? Then something happened and now the blade won't stay on. Retrace your steps. What did you do different?

I would assume the bandsaw needs a complete "tune up" meaning you have to back away all the blade guides so they don't even touch the blade. Place the blade on the tires and slowly rotate them to see what happens. The two lower wheels must be in the same "plane" that means a straight edge place across the rims must show no gaps.

If there are gaps on either side of one wheel, that wheel may be out of alignment OR it may be the opposite wheel. That's why I suggested grasping the wheels and checking for play, up or down OR side to side. Something changed from before to now.... what was it? The upper wheel sorta "floats" on it's stubby axle and is spring loaded for the tension. It should only move up and down, no side to side movement.

If the upper wheel moves right to left, then that must be corrected.
I am used to the upper wheels sliding in a track up and down, but the track is restricted from moving side to side. See what you can determine.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #13 of 20 Old 09-29-2017, 11:29 AM
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if the blade tracks off the wheels in half a turn, there's something seriously big time out of whack.

none of the guides are mis-adjusted and pushing the blade off the wheel, right?

are the tires in good/reasonable shape? are they complete - i.e. no sections/chunks missing? any swelling / distortions? and they clean?

the blade - difficult to envision damage to the blade - that would cause this in half a turn - would not be plainly obvious - but a new known good blade is a good idea.

with the blade off, is there _any_ play in the axles? do they rock in/out when push top/bottom/left/right?

is the tensioning slide on its track?

are all the parts / spacers / shims / whatever for the tracking adjustment screw&mechanism present and installed correctly?

the drive belt creeping is another clue - if the motor shaft and the wheel axle are not parallel, that's one reason. if sawdust/dirt has built up in the teeth and edged stretched/deformed the belt that's another possibility.

it looks to be in good shape - what are the chances careless handling / lifting bent "something"? or inadvertently knocked the motor mounting out of alignment?

as mentioned, tracking on three wheelers is more sensitive - but the blade popping off in half a wheel turn is something pretty blatant.
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post #14 of 20 Old 09-29-2017, 11:27 PM Thread Starter
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I don't really have any reference to compare. But I'd say the wheels and hardware doesn't wobble. I don't have the tools to measure such a thing however besides eyesight. 3 people looked at it and didn't comment of anything shaking so ... I'm sure it has some wobble. :) We tried the guides in just about every configuration you could imagine. Finger tight, pushing, not force applied, off. Same results regardless.

We're going to have the bandsaw repaired via a shop or purchase a new one. Seriously, I thank you all for your attention and help! I'll report back when it is working and disclose the problem for future reference.
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post #15 of 20 Old 09-29-2017, 11:36 PM
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one more thing ...

We have a member of this forum who makes and sells 3 wheel bandsaws for timber framing and veneer cutting... @falbergsaw.
He may be able to shed to light on your issue ... I donno?

Here's his site:
http://www.falbergsaws.com/about_Fal...w_Company.html


The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #16 of 20 Old 09-30-2017, 01:09 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
We have a member of this forum who makes and sells 3 wheel bandsaws for timber framing and veneer cutting... @falbergsaw.
He may be able to shed to light on your issue ... I donno?

Here's his site:
http://www.falbergsaws.com/about_Fal...w_Company.html

[IMG]http://www.falbergsaws.com/images/Me-Blue-Eyes.png[IMG]
Thanks. I'll contact them.

Usually I wouldn't cause much fuss over a power tool like this. But as I said previously, the bandsaw was my grandfathers... Unfortunately, he died from cancer not too long ago. It's one of those things where I'd pay any amount to have it fixed.
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post #17 of 20 Old 09-30-2017, 12:13 PM
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"I took off all the wheels and greased them up. There are no bearings. It's simply a metal pole, metal bushing, and slip ring."

this I missed . . . this is not good. are you certain there's no needle bearing in the hub of the wheel?

the belt is walking, the blade is popping - it sure sounds like the driven wheel is not aligned - if there's no bearing (not likely...) odds are the wheel or housing bore hole is worn. tension on the drive belt will be pulling/loading to the left 100% of the time. does the wheel turn on the axle or does the axle turn in the housing?

item 43 is a bushing - I suspect that is the inner race for a needle bearing mounted in the wheel hub - oddly tho the only mention of a bearing is part 47 which is a thrust bearing mounted behind the driven wheel.
. . . so perhaps it is all done with bushings.
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post #18 of 20 Old 09-30-2017, 01:10 PM
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Hang on to the bandsaw- sentimental reasons and probably built a lot more sturdy than the newer ones. Let us know what you found to solve the problem.
Quote:
unplug the bandsaw
Good idea when working on any power tool!

A diamond is how coal reacts under pressure.
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post #19 of 20 Old 10-21-2017, 03:21 PM
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IIRC the old Delta 3-wheelers had bronze bushings that wore thin in time and had to be replaced. Does your wheel wobble on its shaft when there's no blade on it? Even a little wobble here amounts to a BIG deviation from proper co-planar tracking. When you apply a blade, with tension, the wheels pull inward, - throwing the blade off the wheel. The other two wheel bearings may be worn. Fer shure, having three worn wobbly wheel bearings at the same time; things will fall apart in no time. My roller bearing wheels have a little wobble; your bushings should have NO wobble. Three wheelers are unjustly villified for tracking problems because traditional manufacturers don't provide x-y tracking adjustment for all three wheels. The correct term is co-planar alignment: if you don't have it, it won't work.
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post #20 of 20 Old 10-21-2017, 03:28 PM
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And then be sure to shoot some grease in there once in a while. My first 3-wheeled portable was a chopped down Delta. www.falbergsaws.com
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