Fence Recommendations for vintage Craftsman 113 TS - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 07-12-2019, 10:46 AM Thread Starter
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Question Fence Recommendations for vintage Craftsman 113 TS

Got my father's Craftsman 10" Deluxe Contractor Saw setup, model number 113.299510 (rebranded Emerson, circa 1996-1997 I believe) with cast iron "webbed" wings and original XR2424 fence and add-on Craftsman router extension wing with Craftsman router. I used this (along with my Festool track saw) to build custom kitchen cabinets for a remodel. But the XR2424's teflon glides are either missing or detaching, and the rubber on the adjustment knob has hardened and falling apart so I want replace the fence entirely.

It appears the "new" Chinese-made Biesemeyer-branded fences under Delta are no longer up to the quality of the original USA-made ones, so my question is this: What current model fences are recommended for these vintage Craftsman?

The Delta 30 in. T-Square Fence and Rail System offered through Home Depot has high reviews (4.4/5 in 142). In fact, one of the reviews has a similar table saw and router wing extension:

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post #2 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 07:26 AM
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I have the Delta T2 fence installed on my Craftsman 113. TS. I had to re-drill the rail fence holes to match the Ts's holes. I have found it to be very accurate. I also installed PALS on the saw to get a very accurate alignment.
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post #3 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 07:36 AM
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You have a good fence on the saw. Stay with what you have. If you need a manual for it let me know.


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post #4 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by GeorgeC View Post
You have a good fence on the saw. Stay with what you have. If you need a manual for it let me know.
Being the original owner, my father hasn't always been careful using it and the fence has got a few saw cuts gouged on both sides, and its teflon glides are failing or missing, which may affect alignment. But otherwise, it has certainly been serviceable enough when I used it to do their whole kitchen remodel a few years ago after a thorough de-rusting clean up job (he left it in the under the back covered patio under a tarp for all of it's twenty-something years and mice had made a home on top of it so there is some deep pitting left behind) and it is fully complete.

But yes, I can use an electronic copy of the manual if you got it!
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post #5 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 08:26 AM Thread Starter
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I have the Delta T2 fence installed on my Craftsman 113. TS. I had to re-drill the rail fence holes to match the Ts's holes. I have found it to be very accurate. I also installed PALS on the saw to get a very accurate alignment.
I will certainly being installing a PALS kit along with a link belt; I haven't noticed any significant vibration so I don't think I would be doing any pulley upgrades anytime soon.

Once I square up the blade with the PALS, if the original fence lines up pefectly, I'll stick for it for the time being...
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post #6 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 08:27 AM
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Fix this one ....

Replacement slides are available on Ebay and the knob is easy to replace:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OLD-STO...wAAOSweUFalC1e

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #7 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 08:40 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Replacement slides are available on Ebay and the knob is easy to replace:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-OLD-STO...wAAOSweUFalC1e
Wow, didn't know replacement glides are still available from anywhere. Thanks for bringing this to my attention!

Regarding the Fine Adjustment Knob assembly, it's not the hand knob itself that is bad; it's the rubber "wheel" that rides the front rail that has hardened and is deteriorating, rendering it essentially useless in its present condition. Now, in the grand scheme of use, I really don't need this little feature, but the OCD in me want's everything to be fully functional
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Last edited by Auggie; 07-13-2019 at 08:45 AM.
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post #8 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 08:50 AM
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There's probably a fix for that .....

Break off the old plastic parts and see what's left, maybe a stud with threads or knurled? Then you can use a wood dowel of the slightly smaller diameter with a sleeve from a rubber hose glued on. Other ideas are a table leg tip, a crutch tip, a small caster wheel, a different knob from the hardware store which could be held in a drill against a spinning sanding disc.... It's just a "drive" wheel so it just has to move the fence when rotated small amounts, for fine tuning adjustments.


https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fro...=rubber+wheels



The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 07-13-2019 at 09:01 AM.
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post #9 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 09:04 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Other ideas are a table leg tip, a crutch tip, a small caster wheel, a different knob from the hardware store which could be held in a drill against a spinning sanding disc.... It's just a "drive" wheel so it just has to move the fence when rotated small amounts, for fine tuning adjustments.
Today I'll be using the TS for a large shed project, so this will the first time I've fired it up since the remodel several years ago. I'll give it a good inspection to see what can be done about that rubber wheel. From my recollection, it looks similar to small rubber bumpers/feet on appliance/electronic cases, which if true, would be easier to find an off-the-shelf bolt-on replacement.
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post #10 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 09:22 AM
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I agree with Woodnthings, Fix it!

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post #11 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 09:51 AM Thread Starter
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I agree with Woodnthings, Fix it!
Yep, I was convinced to repair, at least for now. Though eventually I may still need to upgrade the fence in order to get a wider rip capacity than the XR2424 as I ran into that problem while building custom cabinets (used the track saw for those very wide rips).

Ordered the new glides from eBay. After today's inspection and use, will determine the next upgrades for the TS; probably a link belt first.

I've already got a used Craftsman heavy duty mobile base to replace the original four step-up retractable casters, which are rusted up and function horribly even after a through cleaning and lube (not to mention a chore to operate each of the four individual retractable casters to move the TS).
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post #12 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 10:09 AM
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How much rip capacity is there?

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Originally Posted by Auggie View Post
Yep, I was convinced to repair, at least for now. Though eventually I may still need to upgrade the fence in order to get a wider rip capacity than the XR2424 as I ran into that problem while building custom cabinets (used the track saw for those very wide rips).

Ordered the new glides from eBay. After today's inspection and use, will determine the next upgrades for the TS; probably a link belt first.

I've already got a used Craftsman heavy duty mobile base to replace the original four step-up retractable casters, which are rusted up and function horribly even after a through cleaning and lube (not to mention a chore to operate each of the four individual retractable casters to move the TS).

As someone who doesn't think there's enough width capacity on ANY tablesaw I know what that's like..... so I made my Sawzilla about 10 ft total width! However, because cabinets are typically 24" deep and 34" tall where's your issue?

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #13 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 10:51 AM
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I have no clue what you should do. But, that is a more than adequate fence and rail system. It can be repaired and made to function properly. You could reface the left side easily with a sacrificial board or a well made long term option. The thing is, your 61 inch 1 piece front rail is very desirable. Later models of that fence and rail system have 2 piece rails. You could track down another extension, move the rail to the right 12" effectively giving you a 12/36. Add a new tape and you would be good to go.


Anyway, I have Delta T2 and T3 fences as well. I like them both. I expect the T2 is a little better...I like the handle a bit better. What the new ones are like I have no clue. You can't go wrong with one of these. An option might be track down the fence and manufacture the rails yourself. They are, after all, just angle bar and box beam.


Good luck with your decision.
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post #14 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 01:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auggie View Post
Being the original owner, my father hasn't always been careful using it and the fence has got a few saw cuts gouged on both sides, and its teflon glides are failing or missing, which may affect alignment. But otherwise, it has certainly been serviceable enough when I used it to do their whole kitchen remodel a few years ago after a thorough de-rusting clean up job (he left it in the under the back covered patio under a tarp for all of it's twenty-something years and mice had made a home on top of it so there is some deep pitting left behind) and it is fully complete.

But yes, I can use an electronic copy of the manual if you got it!

Send me a private message with your email address.


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post #15 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
As someone who doesn't think there's enough width capacity on ANY tablesaw I know what that's like..... so I made my Sawzilla about 10 ft total width! However, because cabinets are typically 24" deep and 34" tall where's your issue?
The floor-to-ceiling pantry cabinet, the island, the corner sink floor, and the cover panels for base cabinet sides, the pantry cabinet, and especially the L-shaped island, were all wider than 24".

Well, I got to do some cutting on the TS. During spin-up and spin-down there's bad vibration, but once it's at speed, it's "okay." Not sure if would pass the coin test but I'll see how a link belt works out first then go from there.

The fence is NOT parallel to the miter slots when simply locked down because one side is missing a teflon glide that I've mentioned earlier so when the clamp is engaged, the side missing the glide moves closer to the table than the other side, causing the fence to be skewed by 1/8" to 3/16" front to back. I have to measure parallel distances then while holding the rear of the fence, then carefully lock it down. Hopefully the new glides will rectify this problem.

I've ordered a Peachtree A-Line It Basic to align both the fence (once the glides are replaced) and verify if the blade is parallel (eyeballing a metal rule shows the blade is slightly askew).
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post #16 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subroc View Post
But, that is a more than adequate fence and rail system. It can be repaired and made to function properly. You could reface the left side easily with a sacrificial board or a well made long term option. The thing is, your 61 inch 1 piece front rail is very desirable. Later models of that fence and rail system have 2 piece rails. You could track down another extension, move the rail to the right 12" effectively giving you a 12/36. Add a new tape and you would be good to go.
I already have a "spare" extension in storage because its place is taken up by the router table so I already everything I need, except a new tape, if I decide to shift the fence rail. What I'd probably do is if and when the need arises where I need more than 24", I could temporarily add the spare extension, shift the rail, then use a regular retractable tape measure to set the rip widths (which is what I'm doing now anyways since I haven't relied on the rail tape accuracy).
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post #17 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 04:14 PM
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Good choice on just giving your existing fence a refresh, no need to buy new when what's there works fine.

Completely unrelated to the question, but "Chinese made" isn't a pejorative. Chinese manufacturing is a lot like American made manufacturing, you can have things produced at any quality level you choose, the difference is in the price. Something having that !Ade in China sticker shouldn't be an automatic mark against it. The semiconductors in the computers were all using, the steel in the skyscrapers and buildings, even most of the components in the 'Made in USA' stuff, lot of its made in China and you'd never know the difference. Its like whine snobs who always claim the more expensive bottle tastes better, despite both bottles actually being identical.

To be clear, this isn't a comment on the Delta fences you mentioned. For all I know, they're crap, my argument is just that they are, they aren't crap just because they're made in China, they're crap because Delta skimped on the budget

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post #18 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 04:23 PM Thread Starter
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Completely unrelated to the question, but "Chinese made" isn't a pejorative....

...Something having that Made in China sticker shouldn't be an automatic mark against it...

...To be clear, this isn't a comment on the Delta fences you mentioned. For all I know, they're crap, my argument is just that they are, they aren't crap just because they're made in China, they're crap because Delta skimped on the budget
Heh, I completely agree with all your points! It's all about what the quality demanded and expected in the manufacturing process by the client (e.g. Delta, Apple, etc).

But I hadn't made or intended to make any inferences that Chinese-made equates to crap for everything; only specifically that the Chinese-made Biesemeyer fence appears to be no where near the quality of the original USA-made version, from anecdotal evidence gleaned from other forums reviewing this particular fence; just wanted to be clear on that.
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post #19 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 04:42 PM
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I'll just through this out there, although it seems you have a fence worth fixing, when I had my original old Craftsman Contractor saw,,, after 25 years of use I replaced the original fence. I replaced it with a Mule Cabinetmaker fence. http://www.mulecab.com/. I loved the fence and it is still in use, my son-in-law has the saw. I have been tempted to get one for my current saw (Steel City), but I really can't justify it, the saw's fence is a good fence.
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post #20 of 25 Old 07-13-2019, 05:06 PM
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Making multiple pieces of the same width?

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Originally Posted by Auggie View Post
I already have a "spare" extension in storage because its place is taken up by the router table so I already everything I need, except a new tape, if I decide to shift the fence rail. What I'd probably do is if and when the need arises where I need more than 24", I could temporarily add the spare extension, shift the rail, then use a regular retractable tape measure to set the rip widths (which is what I'm doing now anyways since I haven't relied on the rail tape accuracy).

No need to measure each time once you've measured for the first one. Just make a visible mark on the table for a reference. A piece of tape will work if it's thin and won't peal off when you run your next rip. A piece of tape on the rail that's marked for your multiples with the sizes.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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