Craftsmas 21833 table saw and diming lights - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #21 of 42 Old 09-06-2012, 07:05 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ahwatukee (Phoenix, AZ)
Posts: 139
View avewads's Photo Album My Photos
I AM going to get a licensed electrical contractor but I have another question to ask. I did see that I do have a 220v plug in my garage that my air handler is plugged into. I am wondering if a licensed electrician would simply splice into that and put a plug right next to the 220v plug? I just don't want to nor have the available funds to run an electrical line from my breaker box to the garage.

Would that work?

Thanks - Bob

p.s. I put licensed in italics because I am taking the advice that several of you suggested and getting a licensed electrician and not doing it myself or even getting Joe/Frank/Mike/Mary down the street to help because he/she has a book on house wiring and saw their friend do just that. I want this done right.
avewads is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #22 of 42 Old 09-06-2012, 07:29 PM
John
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: La Crosse, Kansas
Posts: 3,028
View jschaben's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by avewads View Post
I AM going to get a licensed electrical contractor but I have another question to ask. I did see that I do have a 220v plug in my garage that my air handler is plugged into. I am wondering if a licensed electrician would simply splice into that and put a plug right next to the 220v plug? I just don't want to nor have the available funds to run an electrical line from my breaker box to the garage.

Would that work?

Thanks - Bob

p.s. I put licensed in italics because I am taking the advice that several of you suggested and getting a licensed electrician and not doing it myself or even getting Joe/Frank/Mike/Mary down the street to help because he/she has a book on house wiring and saw their friend do just that. I want this done right.
I doubt your contractor would buy into tapping into the other 220 circuit. If he does, I would look for another contractor. Your long term solution would be to bring a 50 or 60 amp, 220 line into the garage to a sub panel where you could wire in as many circuits as your subpanel allows.

John

If I strive for perfection, I can generally achieve good'nuff, If I strive for good'nuff, I generally achieve firewood
jschaben is offline  
post #23 of 42 Old 09-06-2012, 09:24 PM
Senior Member
 
Dave Paine's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Eastern PA
Posts: 7,222
View Dave Paine's Photo Album My Photos
If you have a spare breaker in the panel, this could be used to power the saw.

I have several full size breakers which were replaced by two half size breakers in my panel, long before I purchased the house.

A dedicated 15 amp or ideally 20 amp circuit will likely cure your problems. You can still use the extension cord to the garage. The issue is the amperage draw on a single circuit.
Dave Paine is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #24 of 42 Old 09-06-2012, 10:50 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ahwatukee (Phoenix, AZ)
Posts: 139
View avewads's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by jschaben

I doubt your contractor would buy into tapping into the other 220 circuit. If he does, I would look for another contractor. Your long term solution would be to bring a 50 or 60 amp, 220 line into the garage to a sub panel where you could wire in as many circuits as your subpanel allows.
Drats! I was hoping that would work.
avewads is offline  
post #25 of 42 Old 09-07-2012, 05:01 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,446
View knotscott's Photo Album My Photos
How big is the motor on your air handler? If it's convertible and will run on 110v easily, maybe you could switch with your TS.
knotscott is offline  
post #26 of 42 Old 09-08-2012, 12:30 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 51
View stevem2's Photo Album My Photos
You could also have a loose connection problem or a grounding problem. I've seen both. A connection good enough for the current draw of lights (>1 amp per 100 watt light) but not a motor. You might be able to check and see if the voltage on the saw line drops with the saw running verses when it's not. It should remain they same.

Not for sure it's legal but I have seen one leg of a 220 dryer plug "stolen" to feed a utility plug in a spec home that passed inspection. I "stole" the other for a plug on the other side of a wall.
stevem2 is offline  
post #27 of 42 Old 09-12-2012, 06:27 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ahwatukee (Phoenix, AZ)
Posts: 139
View avewads's Photo Album My Photos
OK - I just got a quote from an electrician that we've done business with before and he quoted me $1,400 to run a dedicated 20amp line to my garage, and adding 2 coach lights. His bid includes digging a 25 ft trench 24 in deep but will take off $450 if I have someone else do it. So that brings the total down to $850 but then I would have to get someone to dig the trench. Based on that, uh...I'm going to have to wait a while. I do have another possible option that I would want to ask you about. I have a few 20 amp outside outlets on the back and side of my house. To get access to them, I would have to run a 75ft 12/3 extension cord to my table saw in my garage. Do you think a 75ft - 100ft extension cord be too long? Thoughts? Thanks - Bob
avewads is offline  
post #28 of 42 Old 09-12-2012, 06:38 PM
Sawdust Creator
 
ryan50hrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,047
View ryan50hrl's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by avewads View Post
OK - I just got a quote from an electrician that we've done business with before and he quoted me $1,400 to run a dedicated 20amp line to my garage, and adding 2 coach lights. His bid includes digging a 25 ft trench 24 in deep but will take off $450 if I have someone else do it. So that brings the total down to $850 but then I would have to get someone to dig the trench. Based on that, uh...I'm going to have to wait a while. I do have another possible option that I would want to ask you about. I have a few 20 amp outside outlets on the back and side of my house. To get access to them, I would have to run a 75ft 12/3 extension cord to my table saw in my garage. Do you think a 75ft - 100ft extension cord be too long? Thoughts? Thanks - Bob

In the owners manual for your saw, it gives an extension cord size/length thats acceptable.
ryan50hrl is offline  
post #29 of 42 Old 09-12-2012, 06:40 PM
Sawdust Creator
 
ryan50hrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,047
View ryan50hrl's Photo Album My Photos
the owners manual for your saw says it can take up to a 50 foot 12 gauge extension cord.
ryan50hrl is offline  
post #30 of 42 Old 09-12-2012, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ahwatukee (Phoenix, AZ)
Posts: 139
View avewads's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan50hrl View Post
the owners manual for your saw says it can take up to a 50 foot 12 gauge extension cord.
Yep. I saw that but I am just wondering if they were being lawsuit aware on that. What kinda problems would the additional 25 - 50 ft cause?

Thanks - Bob

p.s. Sorry for all the questions but again, thanks for all the answers, advice and input.
avewads is offline  
post #31 of 42 Old 09-12-2012, 07:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Central Iowa
Posts: 652
View troyd1976's Photo Album My Photos
Send a message via AIM to troyd1976
i guess the first thing i would check into is what also might be on the same breaker as those 20amp outlets, as well as how far of a run it is from the breaker box to them, than adding another 50' or however long with a drop cord as far as voltage drop goes.
running a drop cord like that id personally want to make it an each use setup so that the cord isnt just laying out in the elements or a potential liability lawsuit with someone tripping on it.
another option for you might be to check with friends and family and see if anyone knows of electricians doing side work, most tradesmen do at least some time to time and for a discount in a cash arrangement. you might be able to even find one willing to make your connections at the box and outlet while you do the actual running of wire and make sure your work is up to code.
troyd1976 is offline  
post #32 of 42 Old 09-12-2012, 08:03 PM
Sawdust Creator
 
ryan50hrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,047
View ryan50hrl's Photo Album My Photos
Too long of an extension cord can cause too much voltage drop, which can burn out motors.....

100 foot extension cord at 12 gauge looks like you'd be down from 120 v to 114

10 gauge would keep you at 116.3 Volts...... the manufacturer says a 50 foot 12 gauge (that would be 117 volts)

To keep the same voltage as the manufacturer spec, it would have to be an 8 gauge cord

Last edited by ryan50hrl; 09-12-2012 at 08:07 PM.
ryan50hrl is offline  
post #33 of 42 Old 09-12-2012, 09:36 PM Thread Starter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Ahwatukee (Phoenix, AZ)
Posts: 139
View avewads's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan50hrl
Too long of an extension cord can cause too much voltage drop, which can burn out motors.....

100 foot extension cord at 12 gauge looks like you'd be down from 120 v to 114

10 gauge would keep you at 116.3 Volts...... the manufacturer says a 50 foot 12 gauge (that would be 117 volts)

To keep the same voltage as the manufacturer spec, it would have to be an 8 gauge cord
Drats! Thanks for the info btw. I am just at a loss at the moment and very frustrated. I just don't like the fact that my lights dim when I turn my TS on. Just curious ryan50hrl, what is the voltage loss on a 20 foot 12/3 extension cord plugged into a 15 amp outlet (not sure if the amps really matter). That is my current setup. Thanks - Bob
avewads is offline  
post #34 of 42 Old 09-12-2012, 09:59 PM
Sawdust Creator
 
ryan50hrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,047
View ryan50hrl's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by avewads View Post
Drats! Thanks for the info btw. I am just at a loss at the moment and very frustrated. I just don't like the fact that my lights dim when I turn my TS on. Just curious ryan50hrl, what is the voltage loss on a 20 foot 12/3 extension cord plugged into a 15 amp outlet (not sure if the amps really matter). That is my current setup. Thanks - Bob

Only 1.2 volt drop.....
ryan50hrl is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to ryan50hrl For This Useful Post:
avewads (09-12-2012)
post #35 of 42 Old 09-13-2012, 02:11 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 51
View stevem2's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by avewads View Post
Drats! Thanks for the info btw. I am just at a loss at the moment and very frustrated. I just don't like the fact that my lights dim when I turn my TS on. Just curious ryan50hrl, what is the voltage loss on a 20 foot 12/3 extension cord plugged into a 15 amp outlet (not sure if the amps really matter). That is my current setup. Thanks - Bob
The Amps matter
stevem2 is offline  
post #36 of 42 Old 09-13-2012, 02:46 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 51
View stevem2's Photo Album My Photos
The lights dimming are a sign of high (excessive) current draw. Some where a wire is heating up.

What is the wire run length from you breaker panel to the garage? that would be down from the panel to the ground, across the distance (25' ditch?) and up to where ever you wanted a plug.

A "dedicated circuit" is one plug.

For $800 I'd do it myself

A ditch witch can be rented and cut a 25' slit trench in less than two hours (way less). If the run is not too far #10-2 w/ground, direct bury wire could be used though #8 would be better.

At the breaker box one additional 220v 20 amp ckt. breaker would need to be added, an exit hole found and a wire clamp in the hole. If the panel is in a wall the wire would have to be fished through or cut into the wall and repair later.

If the wire exits the house outside, a short piece of plastic conduit would be needed to get below grade and likewise up at the garage. One 220v plug and box to install it into nailed or screwed to a wall or stud.

One light circuit per leg. One light switch ($ ~0.60) one more box. If lights are to be individually switched , two light switches another box or a bigger box.

I'd add a ground rod at the garage but I'm a nut on grounds.

Home Depot/Lowes sells a little book that explains wiring.

I am not an electrician.

Just saying
stevem2 is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to stevem2 For This Useful Post:
avewads (09-13-2012)
post #37 of 42 Old 09-13-2012, 01:03 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 374
View Fishinbo's Photo Album My Photos
Get yourself a licensed electrician to solve the problem. You’re no dealing with an ordinary matter.
Fishinbo is offline  
post #38 of 42 Old 09-13-2012, 01:57 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NYC
Posts: 84
View GroovyMambo's Photo Album My Photos
I agree let a pro do it. It will save you from a nightmare later on.
GroovyMambo is offline  
post #39 of 42 Old 09-13-2012, 02:28 PM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 27,114
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
Question

Quote:
Originally Posted by GroovyMambo View Post
I agree let a pro do it. It will save you from a nightmare later on.
It doesn't take a "pro"to dig a trench, bury some 1 1/2" or 2" PVC 25 ft, glue on some 90 degree bends and fill it in after inspection at $800 in my opinion. If your time is of equal value to the electrician.... $50.00 an hour then it may be easier to just have them do that part, but I my case, I'd be doin' it.

I would also run a smaller size PVC for phone and cable if desired. Same trench just another pipe, probably 1" will work and put a pull line in as you install it or run the wires as you go. You don't have to hook them up just allow enough extra at both ends.

I would not put any thing less than a 60 amp sub in the garage if it were me. I'd do a 100 AMP sub myself and be done with it. What you want to end up with is enough breakers with separate circuits and not having to unplug each time you switch tools. I run a welder that takes 50 AMPS so that's my reason.

You can't have too many circuits, too much horsepower, or too many bullets....

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 09-14-2012 at 01:45 PM.
woodnthings is online now  
post #40 of 42 Old 09-14-2012, 09:38 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 51
View stevem2's Photo Album My Photos
Expert, definition: Somebody from out of town!
stevem2 is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Another TS thread - Steel City 35990C vs. Craftsman 21833 mikeintexas Power Tools & Machinery 16 05-08-2013 07:03 PM
Lights TomC Woodturning 6 07-16-2012 02:29 PM
For Sale: Craftsman 21833 Table Saw - barely used - $475 Albany, NY secutanudu Classifieds 0 02-17-2012 12:33 PM
Craftsman 21833 or rigid r4512 Butterbean Power Tools & Machinery 14 02-08-2012 07:11 PM
ridgid 4512 and craftsman 21833 RJweb Power Tools & Machinery 11 07-28-2011 12:42 PM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome