Bosch 4100-09 table saw - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 07:48 PM Thread Starter
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Bosch 4100-09 table saw

Anybody here use the Bosch 4100 table saw? I need a new saw and I've went back and forth over portability vs. more stability, or rather the Bosch vs. the Ridgid R4512. My Home Depot doesn't have the R4512 but they do have the R4510, which is the portable version.

However, all three of these saws were reviewed by Wood magazine about 2 years ago and the Bosch was said to be the best of the job site type saws, even over the R4510, and the R4512 was said to be the best contractor type saw of the ones they reviewed. So I've been hung up on that review ever since.

I'm looking for a saw that will leave a glue ready edge in wood after being ripped, if that's possible. I want a solid saw that is good out of the box and can be improved even further with a new blade, has a fence that can be trued parallel to the blade easily and is solid, and maybe could have a shop made ZCI added to it (Wood said the Bosch 4100 and Ridgid R4512 were the only ones that had an opening with edges deep enough for a ZCI to be added). Beyond that I really don't know what else I'd want it for since rip cuts are all I use one for.

Whenever I look at the Bosch in the stores it feels cheaply made though. Most contractor saws look like they would be a LOT better for the same cost, or even less really. But, the Bosch is what is available locally, and got a great review, and would be portable. It also looks like it would do all I need.......for now. I keep thinking if I had a nicer one that I might find more use for it such as dado and cross cutting.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has used the Bosch, or maybe even the R4510. I've seen all kinds of threads on the R4512 and it has about 80 - 90% positive reviews with the occasional negative.

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post #2 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duane Bledsoe View Post
Anybody here use the Bosch 4100 table saw? I need a new saw and I've went back and forth over portability vs. more stability, or rather the Bosch vs. the Ridgid R4512. My Home Depot doesn't have the R4512 but they do have the R4510, which is the portable version.

However, all three of these saws were reviewed by Wood magazine about 2 years ago and the Bosch was said to be the best of the job site type saws, even over the R4510, and the R4512 was said to be the best contractor type saw of the ones they reviewed. So I've been hung up on that review ever since.

I'm looking for a saw that will leave a glue ready edge in wood after being ripped, if that's possible. I want a solid saw that is good out of the box and can be improved even further with a new blade, has a fence that can be trued parallel to the blade easily and is solid, and maybe could have a shop made ZCI added to it (Wood said the Bosch 4100 and Ridgid R4512 were the only ones that had an opening with edges deep enough for a ZCI to be added). Beyond that I really don't know what else I'd want it for since rip cuts are all I use one for.

Whenever I look at the Bosch in the stores it feels cheaply made though. Most contractor saws look like they would be a LOT better for the same cost, or even less really. But, it's what is available locally, and got a great review, and would be portable. It also looks like it would do all I need.......for now. I keep thinking if I had a nicer one that I might find more use for it such as dado and cross cutting.

I'd like to hear from anyone who has used the Bosch, or maybe even the R4510. I've seen all kinds of threads on the R4512 and it has about 80 - 90% positive reviews with the occasional negative.
Hi Duane - I looked over both the Bosch 4100 and the Ridgid 4510 pretty closely and I couldn't find enough difference to justify the cost difference, especially when I went the reconditioned route. They both use tool free blade guard and riving knife installation which makes a big difference in my safety habits over my old saws that didn't have that. The thing that tipped the scales, other than price differential, is that the Ridgid allows the trunnion alignment and the bevel stops to be adjusted from the table top which is a big help in getting the accuracy right. Mine looked pretty good out of the box using combo squares to check it but needed a bit when I put a dial indicator on it. Here's a pretty good source if you can live with reconditioned.
http://www.cpoprotools.com/factory-r...efault,pd.html

I take most magazine reviews with a grain of salt, I have no idea how their advertising revenues mix into the equations.

John

If I strive for perfection, I can generally achieve good'nuff, If I strive for good'nuff, I generally achieve firewood

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post #3 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 08:32 PM
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I think you'll be disappointed if you go with the bosch over the Ridgid r4512. The bosch is still a universal motor, lightweight saw with a aluminum top. The Ridgid, cast iron top, big induction motor, and a much much better fence.
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post #4 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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I think you'll be disappointed if you go with the bosch over the Ridgid r4512. The bosch is still a universal motor, lightweight saw with a aluminum top. The Ridgid, cast iron top, big induction motor, and a much much better fence.
Well, the Ridgid has a 13 amp motor while the Bosch has a 15 amp so I thought the Bosch would have more power. The review said the Ridgid R4512 was a bit underpowered, but it was adequate and did all they asked it to. I think they said they just slowed the feed rate on harder woods. I've recently read it could also be ran on 240 volts though so that might make a difference. I'm not sure I could run it that way due to space in the electric panel but I do have a dedicated 120 volt circuit I could give it.

Is the cast iron top better just due to weight making it more stable, or is there some other advantage?

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post #5 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 09:16 PM Thread Starter
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Hi Duane - I looked over both the Bosch 4100 and the Ridgid 4510 pretty closely and I couldn't find enough difference to justify the cost difference, especially when I went the reconditioned route. They both use tool free blade guard and riving knife installation which makes a big difference in my safety habits over my old saws that didn't have that. The thing that tipped the scales, other than price differential, is that the Ridgid allows the trunnion alignment and the bevel stops to be adjusted from the table top which is a big help in getting the accuracy right. Mine looked pretty good out of the box using combo squares to check it but needed a bit when I put a dial indicator on it. Here's a pretty good source if you can live with reconditioned.
http://www.cpoprotools.com/factory-r...efault,pd.html

I take most magazine reviews with a grain of salt, I have no idea how their advertising revenues mix into the equations.
I thought of this too, so I try to keep that in mind. Some of what they said about the saws can be proven by just observation of, and fiddling with, displays in stores but things like smooth cuts and plenty of power can't be proven without electric and actual wood cutting, which I can't do with the display at Lowe's.
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post #6 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 09:25 PM
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I'm happy with my bosch. Only downside is the fence which is flimsy and difficult to move.

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post #7 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 09:31 PM
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A few things....

1. First, the cast iron top is deeper, which gives you more space between the front of the saw and the blade, as well as the back and the blade. Think of it as trying to balance a board on sawhorses 1 foot apart, or 8 feet, which is more stable?
2. The cast iron top is wider, allowing you to easily cut wider things.
3. The cast iron top is heavier, a heavier saw is more stable, and easier to cut on without worrying about it tipping.

4. The motors......amperage is unfortunetly not all created equal. Ever looked at a shop vac that claims to be 6 hp......its not....The motor in the bosch saw is whats called a direct drive universal motor. The motor in the ridgid saw is a induction style motor, when it says 13 amps, and 1.5 hp....it means it. Much better torque and cutting power.

5. Rewiring your saw to 220 will not give it more power, it cuts the amperage in half, thus allowing you to have lighter wiring running to it. Now many that have rewired to 220 do report it feels like more power, and thats likely to the idea that a saw on 220 will spin up faster, so it seems to recover faster when bogged down.

6. One other option....the craftsman 21833 has a larger motor than the ridgid 4512, it goes to 15 amps from 13, and 1.75hp from 1.5. there are a few other differences but all in all...its a almost identical saw with some upgrades.
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post #8 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 09:33 PM
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Theres a ton of other differences between the ridgid/craftsman and the bosch. End of the day, if you buy the bosch, I think you'll end up replacing it not too long down the road.
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post #9 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 09:40 PM Thread Starter
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A few things....

1. First, the cast iron top is deeper, which gives you more space between the front of the saw and the blade, as well as the back and the blade. Think of it as trying to balance a board on sawhorses 1 foot apart, or 8 feet, which is more stable?
2. The cast iron top is wider, allowing you to easily cut wider things.
3. The cast iron top is heavier, a heavier saw is more stable, and easier to cut on without worrying about it tipping.

4. The motors......amperage is unfortunetly not all created equal. Ever looked at a shop vac that claims to be 6 hp......its not....The motor in the bosch saw is whats called a direct drive universal motor. The motor in the ridgid saw is a induction style motor, when it says 13 amps, and 1.5 hp....it means it. Much better torque and cutting power.

5. Rewiring your saw to 220 will not give it more power, it cuts the amperage in half, thus allowing you to have lighter wiring running to it. Now many that have rewired to 220 do report it feels like more power, and thats likely to the idea that a saw on 220 will spin up faster, so it seems to recover faster when bogged down.

6. One other option....the craftsman 21833 has a larger motor than the ridgid 4512, it goes to 15 amps from 13, and 1.75hp from 1.5. there are a few other differences but all in all...its a almost identical saw with some upgrades.
I read this about the Craftsman also, and I went to look at it. I might not have seen the same saw but it looked like the one I did see had a granite top. Was that it? Sears did a shoddy job of building their display so I didn't get a sense of its quality like I'd hoped. Everything on it was loose and rickety. I'm trying not to let that influence me but it sure would help if I saw one better built.

Also, since the Craftsman does have more power, why is it I read more about the Ridgid over it? Availability, or reputation of the name, or something else?
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post #10 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 09:46 PM
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No the granite top saw is a step up. I have that saw and its a GREAT saw......

This is the one I was referencing.

http://www.sears.com/craftsman-profe...1&blockType=G1

The Sears saw is a bit more.....its on sale now for 579 vs 529 for the ridgid. Also, many aren't aware of the differences.

The craftsman has

Bigger motor - +.25 hp
Larger Riving knife
Longer Cord
Arbor lock for changing blade
Better stock blade (not by much)

Now, the ridgid does have the lifetime service agreement available, a quasi lifetime warranty - doesn't cover as much as a warranty....but is something
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post #11 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 09:48 PM
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Ignore the build quality on the floor of both sears saws, Sears uses a untrained salesperson or warehouse person to assemble alot of their floor models, which is why you get lousy build quality on floor models.
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post #12 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 10:17 PM
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Duane - Even though the better jobsite saws are capable of good work, there's really no comparison in performance, stability, operating room, torque, and just about every other physical parameter you can name. The advantages lean heavily in favor of the full size stationary saw over a portable. It's not so different than comparing a laptop PC to a desktop PC....aside from portability, there just aren't any significant advantages.

I'd suggest reading this.
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post #13 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 10:29 PM Thread Starter
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Actually, I have read that. Thank you for such a good read. I read all 3 parts with great interest. And I share your views on the advantages of one vs. the other. I just hesitate because I know how nice it would be to have a portable saw, even just to be able to move it outside for use. My shop just has a regular 36" entry door, no garage door. Once a contractor saw is assembled in my shop, it won't leave again. Sometimes I have need of one on the job sites but I could keep my cheap one I have now for that. Any nicer cuts needed for jobs would just have to be planned in advance and done in the shop and then taken to the job for use.
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post #14 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 10:33 PM
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I can't guarantee it, but you may be able to fit the ridgid or craftsman through a 36 inch door sideways.......may have to just remove the fence......and they're both on wheels....
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post #15 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 10:35 PM
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Home depots website lists it as 30.61 inches deep. You should be able to roll it though your door way.
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post #16 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 10:38 PM Thread Starter
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I got that review out again on those saws. Wasn't that long ago actually, Wood issue 213, September 2012. They reviewed the Craftsman 21833 as well and said it didn't cut as well as the Ridgid with the stock blade and also scored it lower on the ease of using the blade guard and riving knife. Both saws were scored the same with aftermarket blades.
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post #17 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 10:47 PM Thread Starter
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Home depots website lists it as 30.61 inches deep. You should be able to roll it though your door way.
Oh, I don't think I'd even try it. I've read many times that these are heavy, heavy saws. My shop has a step up into it from the driveway outside. It used to be a garage but the concrete floor was horribly uneven. It was built up to level it out, plus the doorway was walled in and a regular door was installed that has a threshold to go over as well. Might tear up the door, or saw, or my back getting it in and out.
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post #18 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 10:52 PM Thread Starter
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So, ultimately, do you think I should just forget those reviews and choose one of the contractor saws? One other thing I should mention is my shop has no dust collection at all beyond a 6 gallon shop vac that I just connect to each tool as I use it. I wear a mask as I work, and when weather is nice, I set up a fan to pull dust out the open door, or move to the driveway, which is why I was considering the Bosch also.

My budget for a saw will probably be about $600 or less. I've shopped Craigslist a bunch as well, looking for one of those deals everyone else seems to find. Around here it's just high priced junk. Worn out with parts missing that they still want more than half of the original cost for, or low budget saws being offered for near new cost as well.

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post #19 of 30 Old 01-15-2013, 11:37 PM
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Where do you live?

I wouldn't buy the bosch, but thats just me. I used a jobsite saw for a few months, and theres no comparison!!!

I'll tell ya that the blade that comes with either the craftsman or the ridgid are useful for cutting construction lumber.....plan on a new blade right away. If your just ripping with it, buy a glue line rip freud blade for about 50 bucks and be done with it.
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post #20 of 30 Old 01-16-2013, 12:33 AM
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Hi Duane - the 4512 is a lot more saw than the 4100 or even the 4510. You can't really get a good power comparison by the amp ratings as the 4510 and the 4100 use universal motors and the 4512 uses an induction motor. I went with the 4510 because I have a basement shop and would not have been able to get a 4512 down there in any reasonable degree of assembly.

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