Blade tilting away from 90 when raised - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 01-02-2016, 07:30 PM Thread Starter
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Blade tilting away from 90 when raised

Argh. For reasons that I am unaware of and although having followed the directions in the manual to align the blade at 90 degrees, the following is happening:

(1) Blade raised to full height and is square.

(2) Blade is lowered.

(3) When blade is raised it appears to be moving left per this video link:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?...3M&usp=sharing

Any what the heck is going on? I'm really getting to my wits end with this Delta 36-725!

As always, thanks.

Lyman
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post #2 of 22 Old 01-02-2016, 07:45 PM
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I'm not familiar with the saw so bear with me - does the angle indicator still show the blade set to 90 degrees? And is the angle mechanism locked in place (I assume it has that...)?

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post #3 of 22 Old 01-02-2016, 09:14 PM
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somethin is shiftin'

I would look for one or more loose trunnion bolts.

There is a screw stop for your 90 degree setting and make sure it is adjusted exactly.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #4 of 22 Old 01-03-2016, 08:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
I'm not familiar with the saw so bear with me - does the angle indicator still show the blade set to 90 degrees? And is the angle mechanism locked in place (I assume it has that...)?
Thanks for taking the time to reply, much appreciated. The angle indicator, although set at 90 degrees, is adjustable. The tilt wheel is locked. This is driving me nuts. Normally on a Sunday I'll sleep in until 0830. This morning I was back in the garage at 0700.....
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post #5 of 22 Old 01-03-2016, 08:18 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
I would look for one or more loose trunnion bolts.

There is a screw stop for your 90 degree setting and make sure it is adjusted exactly.
Thanks for replying. I'll check the trunnion bolts. I take it that the screw stops you're referring to are the two in front of the throat plate? (The one on the left to adjust the 90 degree setting, the one on the right for 45). If so, I've adjusted the one for the 90 degree (left of throat plate) until I'm blue in the face. No issues with the 45 angle at all so I've not had to adjust that screw to the right of the face plate.

This just makes no sense. Blade all the way up and it's perfectly square. Lower the blade beneath the throat plate and it will remain square as you lower it. Then raise the blade and that gap starts to appear as you can see in the video.

I've tried multiple squares. A woodworking friend who has been in the business forever suggested I not use the square in the video as not enough is on the cast. So I went with a larger square but same results.

I thought that perhaps, however unlikely, it was a warped blade. So I went to Home Depot last night ~2030 and bought another blade (Freud). No difference but I wasn't expecting one anyway....

I'll check those trunnion bolts once I find them and let you know.

Wish I had a sledge hammer right about now, lol.
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post #6 of 22 Old 01-03-2016, 08:40 AM
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I agree, you may need to turn the saw upside down and start looking for something loose--or a clip or spacer missing.

Start but getting a parts blow up.

An old Craftsman I had would do something like that---turned out to be a split C-clip on the tilt adjustment screw---behind the handle.
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post #7 of 22 Old 01-03-2016, 02:24 PM Thread Starter
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All bolts are tight, including those securing the trunnion. At a total loss here.
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post #8 of 22 Old 01-03-2016, 02:34 PM
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OK, then ....

Since the blade wants to angle of it's own accord, I'd start with the tilt control and all it's associated parts. Run the blade full up and see if you can tilt by hand.Push it the direction it moves on it's own the push it the opposite way. Then look and listen for shifting parts. You may have to set the saw on it back side to see what going on. I always do that for adjustments and cleaning of the threaded rods on my Craftsman 12" saws. If it's on a stand just find another similar height object so you can pivot the saw back over on it's lower/rear edge without lifting it. all the fence rails and stuff can stay on that way.


Grab the entire carriage assembly and see if it will tilt or rock on the trunnions.?
Post back with your findings .....

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by mikeswoods; 01-03-2016 at 07:17 PM. Reason: typos---
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post #9 of 22 Old 01-03-2016, 02:59 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Since the blade wants tyo angfle of it's own accord, I'd start with the tolt control and all it's associuated parts. Run the blade full up and see if you can tilt by hand.Push it the direction it moves on it's own the push it the opposite way. Then look and listen for shifting parts. You may have to set the saw on it back side to see what going on. I always do that for adjustments and cleaning of the threaded rods on my Craftsman 12" saws. If it's on a stand just find another similar height object so you can pivot the saw back over on it's lower/rear edge without lifting it. all the fence rails and stuff can stay on that way.


Grab the entire carriage assembly and see if it will tilt or rock on the trunnions.?
Post back with your findings .....
Thanks Sir, I will give that a try this evening and post anything I find. Thanks again for taking the time.

Lyman
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post #10 of 22 Old 01-03-2016, 07:14 PM
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how many typos are there here....

Quote:
Originally Posted by lgldsr73 View Post
Thanks Sir, I will give that a try this evening and post anything I find. Thanks again for taking the time.

Lyman

I need to read my posts twice before hitting "submit" duh. Found 4 typos and fixed them:

Originally Posted by woodnthings
Since the blade wants to angle of it's own accord, I'd start with the tilt control and all it's associated parts. Run the blade full up and see if you can tilt by hand. Push it the direction it moves on it's own then push it the opposite way. Then look and listen for shifting parts. You may have to set the saw on it back side to see what going on. I always do that for adjustments and cleaning of the threaded rods on my Craftsman 12" saws. If it's on a stand just find another similar height object so you can pivot the saw back over on it's lower/rear edge without lifting it. all the fence rails and stuff can stay on that way.


Grab the entire carriage assembly and see if it will tilt or rock on the trunnions.?
Post back with your findings .....

..

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-03-2016 at 10:06 PM. Reason: more typos
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post #11 of 22 Old 01-03-2016, 07:18 PM
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I fixed them for you---now that the post has been copied twice
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post #12 of 22 Old 01-03-2016, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeswoods View Post
I fixed them for you---now that the post has been copied twice
LOL, thanks but not necessary. I knew what you meant.

I've checked this saw six ways from Sunday and everything is tight, no play anywhere that I can find. Blade is tight on both the horizontal and vertical axis as well.

This is going back to Lowes, my hands are tied at this point. The first one from Lowes if you recall had a warped table per their T/S. This one, well, only God knows what's wrong with it. Really not sure if I want to roll the dice a third time....

Lyman
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post #13 of 22 Old 01-04-2016, 09:23 AM
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the blade is not moving left, the T-square is moving right. as the blade is elevated, it is shifting left and right pushing the square away. it appears to be relatively square to the table at any given point during the cranking, as in still parallel to the square edge.

looks to be a decent contractor saw otherwise. my jobsite saw does this even worse than yours.

Last edited by TimPa; 01-04-2016 at 09:26 AM.
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post #14 of 22 Old 01-04-2016, 10:18 AM
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I just now watcched the video ...duh

If you watch at 25 secs in and then move to 45 secs in you can see the shift of the square. If you move between those 2 points you can see the square shift over a 1/32" or so. It does appear that the blade is still parallel to the square. The short bearing surface on the base of the square is NOT the best test, or most accurate, and a longer base would be better more accurate.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #15 of 22 Old 01-04-2016, 04:12 PM
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Could it be something as simple as some of the blade teeth striking the square as you lower and raise the blade, and pushing it away from the blade body? Most table saw trunnions pivot the arbor and blade when raising, so the teeth will go through an arc, and could hit and push against the square, even if it was positioned between the teeth when fully elevated.

It does appear from your video that the blade has rotated slighted from beginning to end- check out the reflection of the back of the shoulder of the tooth closest to the camera at :17, and again at the end of the clip. At the beginning, the edge is in line with the light blue border of the insert plate, but at the end it has rotated slightly forward. I just checked my C'man hybrid saw, which does the same thing (slight blade rotation). Just guessing, but I ascribe it to a bit of passive resistance in the motor from pulley rotation.
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post #16 of 22 Old 01-04-2016, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
If you watch at 25 secs in and then move to 45 secs in you can see the shift of the square. If you move between those 2 points you can see the square shift over a 1/32" or so. It does appear that the blade is still parallel to the square. The short bearing surface on the base of the square is NOT the best test, or most accurate, and a longer base would be better more accurate.
Thanks for the input. The movement was pointed out to me by a cabinet maker friend who suggested I do the test with a square with a much larger base. I did and the results were the same. I then used yet another square (to rule out a one-off of the larger square) and unfortunately the same result.

He suggested the saw go back to Lowes, which it did today. I now have another Delta from Lowes and it is doing the same thing, I kid you know. And it's doing it over three squares. A perfect 90 degrees when the blade is fully raised and not quite a 1/16 then about 1.5" from the surface.

While this has no bearing on anything, I was surprised to learn today that Delta is privately held by a gentleman from Taiwan. I thought that Delta was a multi-billion dollar, multi-national corporation.

Thanks,

Lyman
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post #17 of 22 Old 01-04-2016, 09:59 PM
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it's the tilting mechanism's geometry

It won't effect the saw's performance, it's just the way the mechanism works ... apparently. Square to the table is square to the table even if it's over to the right by a 1/32" or so, it won't matter.

I think you would find they are all that way and that's just how they work. To "compensate" you should probably measure to the fence if you raise and lower the blade before making a cut. I would be interested in the actual dimension of the offset, maybe with a feeler gauge? And does it move the square over additionally each time or is it a one time occurrence?

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-04-2016 at 11:17 PM. Reason: typo
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post #18 of 22 Old 01-04-2016, 11:02 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
It won't effect the saw's performance, it's just the way the mechanism works ... apparently. Square to the table is square to the table even if it's over to the right by a 1/32" or so, it won't matter.

I think you would find they are are that way and that's just how they work. To "compensate" you should probably measure to the fence if you raise and lower the blade before making a cut. I would be interested in the actual dimension of the offset, maybe with a feeler gauge? And does it move the square over additionally each time or is it a one time occurrence?
Again, thanks for taking the time to share your input, it is appreciated.

This is a consistent occurrence. Raise the blade to full height and it's square. Lower it and when it hits the 1.5 - 2.0" mark a gap begins to appear. This is regardless of whether measuring from the left or the right side.

I've owned many saws in my life and essentially it's been a matter of squaring it up at 90, checking the 45 and if good then all is well. But this problem is just driving me batty. I will measure that gap for you and let you know ASAP.

The cast is, btw, flat (which is good). Do you have this saw? If so, when you adjust the set screw to the left of the throat plate are you seeing any movement pursuant to the directions? I am seeing none, zero, nada, zip. It's to 'fine tune' if you will.

Again, thanks for taking the time to provide valuable insight.

Best,

Lyman

Last edited by lgldsr73; 01-04-2016 at 11:04 PM.
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post #19 of 22 Old 01-04-2016, 11:54 PM
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Cut some wood with the blade at various heights. If they come out square, just live with it. It not... I guess you need to keep digging.

My Biesemeyer fence is not square to the table. I've lived with it for years. But it affects little.

Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
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post #20 of 22 Old 01-06-2016, 09:12 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Leo! I am starting another thread with another issue, this time with a Ridgid R4512. The Delta's went back to Lowes as Delta T/S said there were issues on the last saw purchased and to return it to Lowes. I know when to cut my losses. Sigh. That said, please if you could check out the new thread: "Rigid R4512 - Blade Movement". Many thanks, Lyman
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