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post #1 of 44 Old 12-16-2016, 03:41 PM Thread Starter
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band saw resawing

what methods do you prefer to use when setting the tension on your bandsaw, specifically resaw blades? I realize the mfr manual is to be followed, but many saws do not have a tension scale.


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post #2 of 44 Old 12-16-2016, 05:17 PM
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A thing I learned from Falberg Saws here

Blade tension is a real factor when resawing... the more the merrier.
Falberg Saws uses 2 tension springs on their saws to increase the tension. My 18" Min Max upper blade tilt and tension bracket was rebuilt and in the process I replaced the spring with a stronger one.



http://www.falbergsaws.com/

I use the "pluck it" method of tensioning mine. I pluck the left side of the blade because it's more exposed and listen to the sound while I increase the blade tension. I did take a guitar tuner to the shop to see what "note" I was playing, but I can't remember now. I do know the more the merrier works better. The tension on the blade "stiffens" it so it can't flutter under load. If fluttering occurs the cut will wander and not be true. I don't think you can over-tensiuon a blade to the point of breaking it IF the weld is good. I weld my own blades under 5/8" wide and rarely have a failure at the weld.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #3 of 44 Old 12-16-2016, 05:30 PM
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Some of the tension setting is based on the blade manufacturer. Since I use blades made by the local saw sharpening shop, I follow their recommendations. Also, the tension will vary from saw to saw. My bandsaw is a 10" benchtop with shop made guides, so I tend to use the "pluck" method as well as the "deflection" method. The saw manufacturer stated "less than 1/8" deflection", but on full resaw capacity (7" on my saw), I will tension for less deflection. Slow feed is just important as tension on thick pieces. Practice with your own saw will teach you what is necessary for your particular setup and workpiece. I have a chart on the side of my saw that records what tension level is best for each width of blade I use on it. Yes, my little benchtop saw has a blade tension indicator on it, so it makes repeating saw setup quick and accurate.

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post #4 of 44 Old 12-16-2016, 09:29 PM
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from the Falberg Saw web site...

http://www.falbergsaws.com/bandsaw_t..._tracking.html


The current manifestation of that project, Slicer, is a rip cutting monster with a 2 HP, 220V motor on the cutting edge of bandsaw technology and capable (not that you'll need it) of twice the tension of any other band saw anywhere. The revolutionary new frictionless tensioner incorporated into this breakthrough saw can tension 1" blades without binding in the slides (as all modern bandsaws do), totally eliminating the blade "flappage" that produces all those rough-sawn lines we call "band saw texture". The new tensioners are miraculous for producing a finish so smooth it looks like the board just came out of a planer, not a bandsaw!
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Last edited by woodnthings; 12-16-2016 at 09:31 PM.
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post #5 of 44 Old 12-16-2016, 09:55 PM
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My dad and I cut some 6x6 to angle the other day to make some table legs on my bandsaw. We didn't have very straight lines when we got done but two passes on the jointer on each side made short work of it. I was excited to see how flat our legs were after the jointer. Next time I think I will tighten my blade more than I had it but it's good to know the jointer can clean it up :) band saw resawing-imageuploadedbywood-working-talk1481939705.505560.jpg

wish I had a cool line like everyone else...
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post #6 of 44 Old 12-17-2016, 02:28 AM
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The easiest way I have found of tensioning a blade is using the flutter test.

I've tried using a guitar tuner and it has some merit, but the results cant be used by other bandsaws because the tone all depends on the length of the free blade.
Use the flutter test first. then if you have a smart phone you can download a tuner app and find what works for your bandsaw.
But the biggest single issue with bandsawing is speed of feed. SLOW DOWN!

I can cut 7" height on my 7" throat bandsaw, but the flow speed is very very slow. Watch the blade as you push the wood, try it on some scrap and see how the blade just wanders as you increase pressure on the wood. Let the teeth do the work.
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post #7 of 44 Old 12-17-2016, 08:07 AM
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Use the correct blade also

A resaw blade should have no more than 3 TPI and the proper set to the teeth. Tension is the next step, then proper blade guide set up.
Feed speed is sorta self determining. If the saw doesn't cut very fast, chances are the blade is dull. What is "fast"? It should progress at a moderate rate without excessive feed pressure. You will know by using the saw frequently what that speed actually is.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #8 of 44 Old 12-18-2016, 11:36 AM
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I have a 14" Grizzly band saw. I have the extension in it so I am looking for 105" blades. Any recommendations for a good resaw blade. I have seen them range from $30 to $150. I want a quality blade that will last, but do I need to spend the money on a Laguna blade? Should also note that I have not done resawing before.
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post #9 of 44 Old 12-18-2016, 01:28 PM
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The first time I powered up the Slicer, having no idea how much tension to apply, I cranked it down a few turns (just to find a starting point) When I turned it on it ran for a minute or two then quietly squirted the urethane tires out of the wheel wells but left the blade, still tracking, running on uncovered aluminum with no apparent damage to wheel or blade. I backed way off the tension and put it all back together where it remains today. The blade didn't flap with high tension, nor does it flap with low tension; so I guess my only guideline is to watch for if the tire squeezes out-if it does; back off. My guess is that I'm running at a spring load of 500-600 pounds. Now that I have the saw and cutting solution for wide veneer re-sawing I'm working on productization of the simplified feed-rail/sled system to make it operationally practical for Joe Woodworker to mill his own free wood from around the neighborhood. I really want to launch Slicer onto the market before I totally retire; working on it; slowly. The point: the cure for blade flappage isn't more tension. The cure for blade flappage is consistent tension; if the tensioning wheel doesn't snap in to take up slack instantaneously when irregularities or inconsistencies take place, the blade is going to flap. The answer is : Frictionless Tension and Tracking, FTT. Which only my saws have right now. Sooner or later someone you trust is going to come to my shop to verify what I'm saying and you'll go "WOW!!!!"
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post #10 of 44 Old 12-19-2016, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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thanks to all for the inputs. just put on a lennox carbide 1" 1.3tpi. cuts like butter of course. they called for 28000psi tension I think it was. this is the part I was concerned about, relating that number to an actual setting. I did like the flutter test concept. mine is not fluttering.
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post #11 of 44 Old 12-22-2016, 04:25 AM
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I still don't understand why woodworkers use the term psi to measure spring load when only a corporate bureaucrat can conjure up enough double-talk to explain the tenuous relationship between the two. Doesn't "spring rate" just sound more dynamic than "pounds per square inch". Just the term somehow sounds static. When the blade is bouncing along uninhibited by its tensioning mechanism there just isn't much blade flapping to go by. You also find the saw vibrates less and delivers more power to the teeth. This is all especially true for high-tension blade transport systems. 1/2" blades use only half the spring load of the 1" blades. With spring load measurements it's as simple as measuring the compressed length compared to the uncompressed.
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post #12 of 44 Old 12-22-2016, 04:42 AM
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Retrofit possible?

Could a clever guy ... that's me, retrofit an existing Min Max 18" bs with a setup somethin' like your dual spring, floating tensioner?


The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #13 of 44 Old 12-22-2016, 10:01 AM
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Ah ...Ha...

Quote:
Originally Posted by falbergsawco View Post
I still don't understand why woodworkers use the term psi to measure spring load when only a corporate bureaucrat can conjure up enough double-talk to explain the tenuous relationship between the two. Doesn't "spring rate" just sound more dynamic than "pounds per square inch". Just the term somehow sounds static. When the blade is bouncing along uninhibited by its tensioning mechanism there just isn't much blade flapping to go by. You also find the saw vibrates less and delivers more power to the teeth. This is all especially true for high-tension blade transport systems. 1/2" blades use only half the spring load of the 1" blades. With spring load measurements it's as simple as measuring the compressed length compared to the uncompressed.
So, any thought of a retrofit would mean only using one width blade. Probably not gonna happen in my case, even tho I only use the 18 Min Max for resawing at this point in my shop. I read "COPY No. Uno" of the book you wrote back when, signed and dated. The sliding carriage for the upper wheel was not shown in enough detail, but I get the general idea. You want the spring tensioner as close to the wheel as possible, right? So, maybe I can see if that's possible. Any way enough of me and my "concerns" here. You certainly have the science of the bandsaw down and that deserves a whole lot of respect!

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #14 of 44 Old 12-23-2016, 04:02 AM
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Why would you be limited to one size blade? Mine will accept anything from 1/4" to 1.5" (more if I fattened out the wheel wells) width blade. Retrofit would be easy. Simply remove the Jet wheels and the motor, throw the remainder away, and build a proper frame; then throw the wheels away and replace them with machined aluminum wheels so you can speed it up a little, the rest is just following your nose where logic leads you. Remember, however, that I have more invested in one wheel than most of you guys have paid for your whole saw; and that's the 10" wheels. The 18" wheels would be closer to $400 each and you'd need all new drive and idler shafts machined. Bandsaws today aren't designed to work right. They're designed to make a profit; so they're built of die cast parts that the manufacturer buys by the pound from Chinese foundries. They won't improve those designs as long as you'll buy them. I don't even bother patenting this stuff any more. The global tool corps won't pay a penny for patents' licensing so I publish pre-emptively so nobody can patent it. Without that monopoly not one of them will invest in the tool and die work to fix the designs, either. My little niche is to make modern bandsaws for the professionals that depend on quality tools to do what they do better. My lever action tensioning idea went over so well they all starting converting to that, and ultimately there were after-market kits you could buy. They'll probably find some way to implement the frictionless tensioning idea, too, (if they can make it cheap enough) but then you still have all the other archaic design flaws to deal with so it's still not going to be a real high quality tool. Big global tool corps don't know it yet, but they're digging their own graves deeper every year by not doing the research and development to keep up with their customers' demands. While they're fiddling around with how to build a fence that works around blades that can't cut straight, we're designing rail and carriage systems that take the guesswork out of it all. This is what Americans used to do.
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post #15 of 44 Old 12-27-2016, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by falbergsawco View Post
I still don't understand why woodworkers use the term psi to measure spring load when only a corporate bureaucrat can conjure up enough double-talk to explain the tenuous relationship between the two. Doesn't "spring rate" just sound more dynamic than "pounds per square inch". Just the term somehow sounds static. When the blade is bouncing along uninhibited by its tensioning mechanism there just isn't much blade flapping to go by. You also find the saw vibrates less and delivers more power to the teeth. This is all especially true for high-tension blade transport systems. 1/2" blades use only half the spring load of the 1" blades. With spring load measurements it's as simple as measuring the compressed length compared to the uncompressed.

PSI is used because it has been and continues to be the standard convention of every band manufacturer and allows direct reading off every commercial strain gauge made for bandsaws. Spring rate is indeed a term of art but is the relationship between compression in a linear unit of measure such as inches and pressure exerted by the spring in pounds, newtons, KG etc. By normal convention you seem to be mixing up spring rate with spring pressure or its derivative wheel pressure. With most bandsaws tension or strain is tested statically but large industrial bandmills usually test strain dynamically and constantly adjust the pressure to keep the correct strain on the band as it heats and cools. 1/2" blades do not necessarily use half the tension of a 1" blade, this only occurs when the cross-section of the backer (measured from the closest gullet to the rear of the blade) of the 1/2" blade is exactly half that of the 1" blade which is actually quite rare. The best way to measure the spring load (then extrapolate the wheel load and then the blade strain) is with a load cell.

Have you verified your claim that your BS can produce twice the tension of ANY bandsaw? Me thinks you have exaggerated a wee bit there. If you claiming it based on the two springs in the picture they better be on the other end of a LONG lever.
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post #16 of 44 Old 12-27-2016, 08:17 PM
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...I still don't understand why woodworkers use the term psi....
because
...delivers more power to the teeth...
...measuring the compressed length compared to the uncompressed....

are terms/conditions of your own making which no one else understands and has no basis in engineering, common sense or science.

the only way to deliver less power to the teeth is for the blade to slip on the wheels. pretty much a lack of tension there.... whether there is 1000 pounds or fifty pounds of spring tension, or 0.5 inches of compression or 50 inches of compression is completely unrelated - if the blade slips, it don't cut so good. if the blade does not slip, another 50 tons of spring loading or 50 fifty feet of spring compression don't make a hoot, subject to the issue that tension is sufficient to minimize flutter.

the thickness of the blade x the width of the blade = the area of the blade in square inches.
the pounds of force exerted by the springs divided by the area of the blade = pounds per square inch.

and (sigh) comma, as springs age in use they lose compression power. this is not a matter of weeks; but seeing as some wood hackers here are running 40-50 year old band saws, becomes an issue.
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post #17 of 44 Old 12-27-2016, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coschafer View Post
I have a 14" Grizzly band saw. I have the extension in it so I am looking for 105" blades. Any recommendations for a good resaw blade. I have seen them range from $30 to $150. I want a quality blade that will last, but do I need to spend the money on a Laguna blade? Should also note that I have not done resawing before.
Go to Highland woodworking and get yourself a wood slicer real blade. It's all I use for real work, cuts like butter, and you'll love it. Guaranteed.

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post #18 of 44 Old 12-27-2016, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Al_Amantea View Post
Go to Highland woodworking and get yourself a wood slicer real blade. It's all I use for real work, cuts like butter, and you'll love it. Guaranteed.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-T217A using Tapatalk

Spectrum Supply and Iturra sell the same bladestock for significantly less as the Kerfmaster and Bladerunner. These are really niche blades where you need either a very thin kerf or a bandsaw like the Ridgid and all Delta cast clones that have very limited tensioning ability. The are impulse hardened spring steel and are very sharp initially but dull much quicker than a standard carbon blade. Obviously, bi-metal and carbide blades are better choices for more substantial saws but this bladestock (borrowed from the meat cutting industry) has its advantages.


I never answered the OP's question, I use a bandsaw blade strain gauge to set mine, I prefer the Lenox for woodcutting bands (it has a larger readout in the woodcutting PSI range) but most aren't going to spend the money to get tension correct.
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post #19 of 44 Old 12-27-2016, 09:30 PM
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Thanks for the info!

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post #20 of 44 Old 12-28-2016, 04:10 AM
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blade tensioning methods .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Huxleywood View Post
.......

I never answered the OP's question, I use a bandsaw blade strain gauge to set mine, I prefer the Lenox for woodcutting bands (it has a larger readout in the woodcutting PSI range) but most aren't going to spend the money to get tension correct.
As far as I know, the strain gauge, the flutter test, the deflection method, the spring compression washer indicator and the "pluck" test, an audio method are the most common blade tensioning methods.... Is there another method?



http://www.suffolkmachinery.com/six-...of-sawing.html

The most common "adjustment" mechanisms use a threaded rod or a cam operated lever. Are there other methods? The cam method, as far as I know requires a presetting of the tension via a threaded rod, then returns to that preset using the cam. I believe that the horizontal band mills may use a hydraulic piston and pressure gauge for tensioning, not certain about that though. Are there other methods?




The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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