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post #1 of 17 Old 10-10-2017, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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Band saw recommendations

Hello, I'm looking to purchase a bandsaw to cut veneer. I plan to cut walnut and other hardwoods into 1/4 slices or thicker. I'm not interested in paper thin veneer. I would like to build furniture with a hardwood durability without the cost. Any recommendations would be great! I've heard 14" 1hp as a minimum.
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post #2 of 17 Old 10-10-2017, 04:27 PM
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Depends on how serious you are about woodworking and how deep your pockets are, there are a lot of machines out there from entry level to professional with prices to match.
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post #3 of 17 Old 10-10-2017, 05:56 PM
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Resawing takes a better than average saw. I bought a new 14" Rockwell in the 70's to make wooden toys. The 1/2hp motor failed (replaced with 1hp), then the stamped steel drive pulley, then the diecast pulley, then the belt all replaced in the first 6 months of use. The warrantee didn't apply since they said I was using it in production. I also replaced the blade guides and beefed up the motor mount. I tried resawing with it but the cast iron frame would go into vibration unless you moved really slow. Don't even think you can get more capacity by putting the riser block on one. I now have a 17" SCM mini-max (made by Samco) with a welded frame. I can resaw on it w/o vibrations but the limitation is HP. I fixed the HP thing, bought a Baker resaw, 20hp!
You can use a 14" to resaw if you kerf both edges first on the table saw leaving only a couple of inches for the bandsaw.
There is an excellent video on line Showing how to set up you bandsaw.
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post #4 of 17 Old 10-10-2017, 06:01 PM
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before you do anything ......

Read through this thread and you will understand what is involved much better:

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/b...sawing-153649/

I don't consider 1/4" thick pieces to be veneers, rather resawing, but that's just me. Sawing veneers is a bit different because of their thinner dimension, usually 1/16" or so. If your pieces are 1/4" or so, you can still run them through a thickness sander and that's a big plus.

In my shop, I use a dedicated "resaw" bandsaw which is a 3 HP Min Max 18" which will saw up to around 10" or 11" thick. Blade choice is very important and some guys use a variable pitch blade 1" or 1 1/4" wide with great results. Myself, I use a 3/4" wide 3 TPI Timberwolf blade from Grizzly Industrial with good results, but some sanding is required.

Another important aspect to this is work support and the fence. Heavy thick timbers must be well supported and held tight against the fence for best accuracy. A tall fence and a pressure roller or feather board will help maintain constant contact.

I like to surface joint each succeeding face as I resaw the next piece. This presents a smooth, flat surface to hold against the fence and no further jointing or surfacing is required on that face. This requires a wide jointer obviously and not every shop will have one.
So what you get is one sawn face and one smooth face as you progress along. Then I run all the sawn faces through a drum sander to get them smooth and an even thickness.

In order to get a rigid frame which required for resawing a welded frame is now the standard on newer large size band saws. Older saws like a Crescent 30" has a huge cast iron frame and is not subject to flexing. The cast iron frame 14" bandsaws with riser blocks are the most popular, but are not necessarily the best machine for resawing. The smaller wheels limit the blade width and the blade thickness which may result in metal fatigue from constant flexing around the smaller wheel.

In general terms, I would look for a 18" welded frame with a 2HP or 3 HP motor. There are 14" "resaw" bandsaws which have a 2 HP motor and may have a reinforced frame, I donno?

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 10-10-2017 at 07:10 PM.
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post #5 of 17 Old 10-10-2017, 08:29 PM
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1/4" is too thick for a veneer. It will work like solid lumber. Take that into account when using it or you will have no end of problems. Generally limit veneers to no more than 1/8" and even at that you need to be careful about expansion/contraction issues.
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post #6 of 17 Old 10-11-2017, 12:36 PM
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Veneer is never cut on a saw, it's either rotary cut or sliced.
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post #7 of 17 Old 10-11-2017, 04:14 PM Thread Starter
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For example, my next project is a desk. I want to build frame pieces from pine "or an inexpensive lumber" then cover them in walnut. I do not wish to veneer,in the sense of wrapping paper thin walnut sheets around a pine desk. I want a durable desk, that can withhold scratches and dents, In addition to be resandable and refinishable. If I purchase 3/4" walnut I would like to cut this in half, plane it, then have two 1/4" sheets. These 1/4" pieces would be the exposed wood of my desk. I'm fairly new to furniture making, but I would like to advance my skills economically. If I'm headed down the wrong path, some guidance would be great. However, if this makes sense, I would require a bandsaw and would like some recommendations. Thanks for the feedback so far!
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post #8 of 17 Old 10-11-2017, 04:22 PM
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Come on now ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by canarywood1 View Post
Veneer is never cut on a saw, it's either rotary cut or sliced.
Production veneers are made that way, but we are not limited to those in the shop and a bandsaw is the most used machine:

https://www.falbergsaws.com/industrial_veneer_mill.html

http://www.thewoodwhisperer.com/videos/wish-you-veneer/


http://www.finewoodworking.com/2000/...our-own-veneer

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #9 of 17 Old 10-11-2017, 04:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Kilpatrick View Post
For example, my next project is a desk. I want to build frame pieces from pine "or an inexpensive lumber" then cover them in walnut. I do not wish to veneer,in the sense of wrapping paper thin walnut sheets around a pine desk. I want a durable desk, that can withhold scratches and dents, In addition to be resandable and refinishable. If I purchase 3/4" walnut I would like to cut this in half, plane it, then have two 1/4" sheets. These 1/4" pieces would be the exposed wood of my desk. I'm fairly new to furniture making, but I would like to advance my skills economically. If I'm headed down the wrong path, some guidance would be great. However, if this makes sense, I would require a bandsaw and would like some recommendations. Thanks for the feedback so far!
Be careful, Jake, when you take a softwood like Pine and cover it with a hardwood like Walnut. If you put a 1/4" piece of Walnut on one side of a flat panel of Pine you'll need to also put a similar piece on the opposite side or the panel will certainly warp or cup. If your resaw setup is good enough you'll be able to get 3 pieces out of that 3/4" piece of Walnut, maybe 4. I've gotten 4 many times and the pieces end up around 1/8" thick, surfaced both sides. Even if you built the desk out of a relatively inexpensive hardwood like Poplar and covered it with a Walnut skin you'd still need to cover the opposite side to keep the panels flat.

If you have large flat panels/top, how will you clamp the Walnut to the substrate and what glue do you plan to use?

This assumes you'll have large, flat panels. If your design doesn't have that then you might get away without covering the back side of the substrate boards.

David

PS - I use a Laguna 14 SUV with 1" Resaw King blade
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Last edited by difalkner; 10-11-2017 at 04:53 PM. Reason: Bandsaw suggestion
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post #10 of 17 Old 10-11-2017, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
By the time you buy the saw, and add the waste from milling, the reasoning is pretty apparent for rotary or slicing, the size you can cut is also limiting, so while it can be done, it's just not very economical.
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post #11 of 17 Old 10-11-2017, 06:52 PM
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"Veneer is never cut on a saw." Not true! There are even multi blade precipitating saws made to cut specialty veneers. Lots of small custom furniture shops bandsaw decorative veneer slices. I do it for furniture guys that don't have a stout enough band saw. A welded frame saw of 17-18" (what ever the metric measurement is,) can do a pretty nice job. Not fast but it isn't about speed. It's about making something unique. I've done it using a mulberry tree cut from some one's grand dad's yard. Where else are you going to find mulberry veneer?
It is not my business, I'd go broke if I did that all the time. But I see a huge value in it for some people. Not money value, psychological value.
Furniture of that sort should have some history recorded on it or attached some how.
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post #12 of 17 Old 10-11-2017, 08:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Larry Schweitzer View Post
"Veneer is never cut on a saw." Not true! There are even multi blade precipitating saws made to cut specialty veneers. Lots of small custom furniture shops bandsaw decorative veneer slices. I do it for furniture guys that don't have a stout enough band saw. A welded frame saw of 17-18" (what ever the metric measurement is,) can do a pretty nice job. Not fast but it isn't about speed. It's about making something unique. I've done it using a mulberry tree cut from some one's grand dad's yard. Where else are you going to find mulberry veneer?
It is not my business, I'd go broke if I did that all the time. But I see a huge value in it for some people. Not money value, psychological value.
Furniture of that sort should have some history recorded on it or attached some how.
Okay if you want to get picky about it, i should have said production veneer is NEVER cut on a band saw.
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post #13 of 17 Old 10-11-2017, 09:28 PM
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no one is gettin' picky ....

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Okay if you want to get picky about it, i should have said production veneer is NEVER cut on a band saw.

When you make a generalized blanket statement like that, there will be a disagreement. This is NOT a production forum and there are only a few who actually make a living from woodworking and have their own business, probably less than 10 % of the members here. I did a survey a while back to find out and most of the members here are hobbiests or retired pros.

As far as production, if you mean veneer plywood, then yes what you stated is correct. I would say woodworkers who make furniture may make their own veneers because they have more control over the quality, the wood choice and the thickness as Larry said above.

In this question, if the OP wants to limit his sawing to making veneers, that's a pretty specialized application and a specific saw and blade may be a better solution than a commercially available bandsaw which is adapted to resawing thinner slabs, but that's his call. It depends on the volume and application he has in mind which we know nothing about at this point, so are only "talking amongst ourselves" ....
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The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #14 of 17 Old 10-11-2017, 10:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Kilpatrick View Post
For example, my next project is a desk. I want to build frame pieces from pine "or an inexpensive lumber" then cover them in walnut. I do not wish to veneer,in the sense of wrapping paper thin walnut sheets around a pine desk. I want a durable desk, that can withhold scratches and dents, In addition to be resandable and refinishable. If I purchase 3/4" walnut I would like to cut this in half, plane it, then have two 1/4" sheets. These 1/4" pieces would be the exposed wood of my desk. I'm fairly new to furniture making, but I would like to advance my skills economically. If I'm headed down the wrong path, some guidance would be great. However, if this makes sense, I would require a bandsaw and would like some recommendations. Thanks for the feedback so far!
Jake
Two different options you might consider.
Veneering is an advanced skill but there are several different ways to build a desk top or table top. You might consider using a Walnut plywood. Itís already veneered, itís matched, itís smooth and ready to go. The veneered plywood can be framed with solid Walnut so there will be no plys showing.
Another thing you can do is use hardwood flooring. This is available in solid, veneer or squares (parquet). Again this flooring material is very consistent and a good start for a very nice top.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #15 of 17 Old 10-12-2017, 03:50 PM
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#1 lesson I learned - Research 14" bandsaws! I recomend watching real reviews on youtube.
#2 lesson learned - Do Not go cheap! I have 3 - 14" bandsaws in my shop & 2 - 12". IF I had researched bandsaws I would have only 1.

Cheap is not always better. You will actually save money by spending more on a high quality machine & if you want to build furniture that is going to last generations, your going to want a superior tool.
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post #16 of 17 Old 10-12-2017, 04:20 PM
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construction methods .....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Kilpatrick View Post
For example, my next project is a desk. I want to build frame pieces from pine "or an inexpensive lumber" then cover them in walnut. I do not wish to veneer,in the sense of wrapping paper thin walnut sheets around a pine desk. I want a durable desk, that can withhold scratches and dents, In addition to be resandable and refinishable. If I purchase 3/4" walnut I would like to cut this in half, plane it, then have two 1/4" sheets. These 1/4" pieces would be the exposed wood of my desk. I'm fairly new to furniture making, but I would like to advance my skills economically. If I'm headed down the wrong path, some guidance would be great. However, if this makes sense, I would require a bandsaw and would like some recommendations. Thanks for the feedback so far!
Quote:
Originally Posted by difalkner View Post
Be careful, Jake, when you take a softwood like Pine and cover it with a hardwood like Walnut. If you put a 1/4" piece of Walnut on one side of a flat panel of Pine you'll need to also put a similar piece on the opposite side or the panel will certainly warp or cup. If your resaw setup is good enough you'll be able to get 3 pieces out of that 3/4" piece of Walnut, maybe 4. I've gotten 4 many times and the pieces end up around 1/8" thick, surfaced both sides. Even if you built the desk out of a relatively inexpensive hardwood like Poplar and covered it with a Walnut skin you'd still need to cover the opposite side to keep the panels flat.

If you have large flat panels/top, how will you clamp the Walnut to the substrate and what glue do you plan to use?

This assumes you'll have large, flat panels. If your design doesn't have that then you might get away without covering the back side of the substrate boards.

David

PS - I use a Laguna 14 SUV with 1" Resaw King blade
David's advice is correct. Here is an example of that method of construction used to make high end doors by my neighbor:
http://troycornersdoor.com/construction.html



You may not need to go to all that work to make a simple desk top, rather just use 3/4" thick material glued together. That's what I would do anyway. Seal both sides when you finish it. You will get best results if you have the glue up run through a wide belt sander in a cabinet shop. My neighbor has sanded several table tops for me in this manner and they come out smooth and flat without any planing and gobs of sanding by hand.
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post #17 of 17 Old 10-15-2017, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Kilpatrick View Post
For example, my next project is a desk. I want to build frame pieces from pine "or an inexpensive lumber" then cover them in walnut. I do not wish to veneer,in the sense of wrapping paper thin walnut sheets around a pine desk. I want a durable desk, that can withhold scratches and dents, In addition to be resandable and refinishable. If I purchase 3/4" walnut I would like to cut this in half, plane it, then have two 1/4" sheets. These 1/4" pieces would be the exposed wood of my desk. I'm fairly new to furniture making, but I would like to advance my skills economically. If I'm headed down the wrong path, some guidance would be great. However, if this makes sense, I would require a bandsaw and would like some recommendations. Thanks for the feedback so far!
One thing to consider is the expansion/contraction characteristics and grain of the wood species- mixing softwood and hardwood is a good way to have problems when one piece is quarter-sawn and the other is flat/rift sawn. If the softwood is quarter-sawn and the other piece can't expand as much (especially new growth that has thicker rings), joints can pop and wood can split.
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