Advice on jointers... - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 17 Old 07-23-2020, 01:28 PM Thread Starter
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Advice on jointers...

I'm looking at a jointer to finish out my shop, and I want to follow the advice: buy your last tool first (i.e., don't skimp out when you buy a tool).

Looking at the Powermatic 8" with helical head or the Powermatic 8" parallelogram, which would you choose and why?
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post #2 of 17 Old 07-23-2020, 03:58 PM
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A helical head is nice, but not an absolute.

As far as Powermatic, I wouldn't be either one because I don't believe in paying a premium for the name.

A Grizzly will do the same thing.

Robert
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post #3 of 17 Old 07-23-2020, 04:16 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrRobert View Post
A helical head is nice, but not an absolute.

As far as Powermatic, I wouldn't be either one because I don't believe in paying a premium for the name.

A Grizzly will do the same thing.
That's generally how I feel, too... I'm wondering if I should stick with Jet or Grizzly. The Powermatic just made an easy comparison because both of those were the same price.

I'm just a hobbyist. Would I regret going with a 6" over an 8"?
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post #4 of 17 Old 07-23-2020, 04:28 PM
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I've had a 6" for years.
There have been many time's I could have used an 8" but I don't regret buying the 6"
If I had an 8" I would probably find a need for something bigger.
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post #5 of 17 Old 07-23-2020, 05:53 PM
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I would definitely buy 8inch over 6inch, especially if you have funds for it :)
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post #6 of 17 Old 07-23-2020, 07:30 PM
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I have a Grizzly 6 parallelogram with the the spiral head. I dialed it in when I first bought it several years ago and it has been fine ever since. I could of used a 8 several times but just dont have the space. For stock wider than 6 I use a planer sled. Very happy with the Grizzly. They now have 2 different versions of 8 parallelogram jointers, the G0490 (Spiral head) and the G0857(knives) / G0858 (helical) They dont make mine anymore, but it is basically the 6 version of the G0490X.

If I was to do it again, and had the space (& cash), I wouldnt hesitate to go with the 490X.
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post #7 of 17 Old 07-23-2020, 08:24 PM
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I don't think I have ever used my 8" jointer for face surfacing, but the reason I have an 8" jointer is for the length of the beds. When I run a board through the jointer, it's because I need the edge straight for its entire length. So the long bed it necessary for that purpose.

What I didn't do 25 years ago, was consider a parallelogram jointer, solely because I didn't like the levers for raising and lowering the beds. However, because you mentioned that Powermatic now has a parallelogram jointer (only Delta made them 25 years ago), I decided to look at the engineering behind them via the parts list and manual.

What I just realized is that my dislike for the levers is trivial in comparison to the adjustability that the parallelogram gives versus sliding dovetail ways. Had I known then, what I have learned over the past 25 years, and today, I would have bought the parallelogram jointer (only Delta made one back then).

If you have bed-droop, which is pretty much guaranteed for all sliding dovetail jointers, it is nearly impossible to shim it out of the dovetailed ways. The adjustability of the parallelogram design permits you to easily adjust out any droop, as well as any side-to-side cant.

Several manufacturers are now producing the parallelogram design, so take your pick based on what your budget limits you too.
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post #8 of 17 Old 07-23-2020, 10:00 PM
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I updated an older DJ15 with a Byrd Shelix cutter-head and wish I'd of done it years ago. I now have a 6" parallelogram shelix jointer. I would love an 8" if I had the room. Upgrading to a helical/shelix is fairly simple down the road, but you can't turn a 6 inch to an 8 inch or a dovetail into a parallelogram later... Just my 2 cents.

A handful of patience is worth a bushel of brains...
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post #9 of 17 Old 07-24-2020, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Christopherson View Post
I don't think I have ever used my 8" jointer for face surfacing,
how do you flatten the face of rough stock? i would be interested to know another method.

it is exactly the tool i use to flatten stock to prepare it for thicknessing in the planer...

op as mentioned, it isn't always the extra width that helps in the process, but the longer bed length - it supports nicely to get a straighter jointing result.

Last edited by TimPa; 07-24-2020 at 11:42 AM.
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post #10 of 17 Old 07-24-2020, 12:34 PM
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Quote:
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how do you flatten the face of rough stock? i would be interested to know another method.
Planer or wide belt sander. Needing a jointer to do that is a bit of a myth.
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post #11 of 17 Old 07-24-2020, 03:02 PM
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My primary use of the jointer is to make two flat edges/faces square to each other.
I'll look into getting a parallelogram type if I ever am able to upgrade tp a new 8" jointer.
The helical type head with carbide inserts looks mighty fine too!

I have survived for years with an old Jet 6" with dovetailed ways. After its initial setup,
it's never drooped nor required any advanced nor more complicated tuning than 3 little things,
1, changing blades requires setting and leveling them to the outfeed table
2, I have re-indexed the height of the outfeed table
- after moving it
- after someone changed its height trying to "help" me
- once after sharpening knives it needed resetting
3, squaring the fence to the table for various reasons including because of
- just checking before a project
- the result wasn't square
- a helper tried to reset it *sigh*

I wish I had an 8" jointer because it is easily capable of facing a 6 to 8" board.
Those long tables are the bomb for long stock. The additional power and weight I think would
add to the smoothness of surfaces, but with sharp knives all set correctly, my 6" does a respectable job.

Years ago when I bought my jointer there was not a carbide knife option, much less a helical head
with insert knives (with 4 edges, just rotate each insert?! that's nice!)

Usually when it comes to 6" and wider facing of a board I have relied on a 12" planer. It's obviously
not.the.same, but when well tuned it does a fine job on cooperative wood. it jus doesn't produce
straight surfaces except to match.. I've seen discussions on even bigger tools, but I don't have
the space for a 12" jointer! (or 16" or....) fitting an 8" jointer may take some extra consideration too.
As does moving one. If you can't put it on a handtruck or dolly and roll it into place, or if you're
caught trying to move the business end onto its stand without a crane, pullies or sufficient helpers,
GET HELP!
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post #12 of 17 Old 07-27-2020, 12:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Christopherson View Post
Planer or wide belt sander. Needing a jointer to do that is a bit of a myth.
I would like to offer my opinion on this matter.

one reason that a jointer is suited well for flattening the face or edge of boards, is that the machining being performed is independent of the opposing face or edge. where a wide belt sander or planer will provided a machined surface that is dependent of the opposing surface, since that surface is riding on the reference plane (the planer bed or the sander belt), or what we say in the shop bad in bad out. an 8' twisted board will come out twisted... i will agree that the planer or wbs has the ability to remove some board defects. but, it is my opinion that they cannot truly flatten a face or edge as a jointer can.

i think we will agree to disagree...
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post #13 of 17 Old 07-27-2020, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Christopherson View Post
Planer or wide belt sander. Needing a jointer to do that is a bit of a myth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPa View Post
I would like to offer my opinion on this matter.

one reason that a jointer is suited well for flattening the face or edge of boards, is that the machining being performed is independent of the opposing face or edge. where a wide belt sander or planer will provided a machined surface that is dependent of the opposing surface, since that surface is riding on the reference plane (the planer bed or the sander belt), or what we say in the shop bad in bad out. an 8' twisted board will come out twisted... i will agree that the planer or wbs has the ability to remove some board defects. but, it is my opinion that they cannot truly flatten a face or edge as a jointer can.

i think we will agree to disagree...
A planer can flatten a board, BUT, The board must first be mounted on a sled and shimmed or fastend to keep it in the same position.
It's much easier IMO to run it across a jointer.
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post #14 of 17 Old 07-27-2020, 03:16 PM
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My fireplace doesn't care whether the board is twisted or not.
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post #15 of 17 Old 07-28-2020, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick Christopherson View Post
My fireplace doesn't care whether the board is twisted or not.
You are in the wrong forum. This is for fine woodworking where we need smooth, flat, and square surfaces.

Try searching for firewood. LOL
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post #16 of 17 Old 07-30-2020, 08:11 PM
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I bought an 8 Powermatic dovetail with helical head. I considered the Grizzly but went with the PM for the local support. A local sawmill guy bought a Grizzly and had setup issues with it. He finally got it right but I just do not have time to deal with it. I had Woodcraft deliver my jointer, set it up, and I was off and making sawdust. Cost was less than an issue to me than time.

-Paul
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post #17 of 17 Old 07-30-2020, 08:31 PM
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After searching CL, FB etc. for three years, I found my G1182HW for not too much $$. 6" w/47" bed...I couldn't be happier.


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