20 amps at 110 volts Bandsaw - Page 3 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 18Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
post #41 of 76 Old 04-14-2016, 02:39 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NW Pa
Posts: 2,905
View TimPa's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdonhowe View Post
Sorry, not true; as long as you have more than a single receptacle, you can use 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit. It's very common in residential wiring, particularly with kitchen circuits. BTW, a duplex receptacle counts as more than one, so a single 15 amp receptacle is okay.

a 15 amp receptacle is not rated at 20 amps. my statement is true. can a 15 amp receptacle be used in a general purpose ckt? yes.


however a 20 amp circuit for a 20 amp load should have all 20 a rated components. my opinion.
woodnthings likes this.

Last edited by TimPa; 04-14-2016 at 02:44 PM.
TimPa is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #42 of 76 Old 04-14-2016, 11:56 PM
Senior Member
 
Jig_saw's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 861
View Jig_saw's Photo Album My Photos
To original poster:


Have you tried plugging the saw and starting it? You can hook up a multimeter in the ammeter mode and check the AC current drawn by the saw. This will verify whether it is really [email protected] 110V.

Keep thy axe sharp.
Jig_saw is offline  
post #43 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 12:26 AM
Senior Member
 
Jig_saw's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 861
View Jig_saw's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchymist View Post
Not sure what that was all about, but:

The bottom line is that wire and breaker size is all about getting the most power to a load with the least voltage drop for the least cost.
My point is that whatever wiring is required for 110V @ 20A can also be used for [email protected] 10A. There is no change in wire thickness required for a given load (resistance).

In India, we have a thinner wire gauge for lighting circuit ([email protected]) and heavier gauge for power circuit ([email protected]). Correspondingly, the circuit breaker for 120V should be 30A for running power appliances.
Jig_saw is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #44 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 12:55 AM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 26,220
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos


There is no NEMA receptacle for a 30 AMP 120 V, 2 wire circuit.

I use the L6-20R for my 20 AMP 240V tools.
http://www.nooutage.com/nema_configurations.htm

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 04-15-2016 at 01:00 AM.
woodnthings is online now  
post #45 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 08:01 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post


There is no NEMA receptacle for a 30 AMP 120 V, 2 wire circuit.

I use the L6-20R for my 20 AMP 240V tools.
http://www.nooutage.com/nema_configurations.htm
Technically a person could wire a three wire 30amp receptacle omitting the earth ground. It was done all the time before the era of safety Nazi's. The two wire receptacle was just phased out because it wouldn't pass any new construction codes anywhere.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #46 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 09:01 AM
Senior Member
 
Alchymist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central PA
Posts: 2,222
View Alchymist's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post

There is no NEMA receptacle for a 30 AMP 120 V, 2 wire circuit.

I use the L6-20R for my 20 AMP 240V tools.
It's shown in your chart....

http://www.cooperindustries.com/cont...G-B-Sec-41.pdf

Alexis de Tocqueville was a very smart man.

Last edited by Alchymist; 04-15-2016 at 09:06 AM.
Alchymist is offline  
post #47 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 09:25 AM
where's my table saw?
 
woodnthings's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: SE, Michigan
Posts: 26,220
View woodnthings's Photo Album My Photos
I don't see one....

Quote: There is no NEMA receptacle for a 30 AMP 120 V, 2 wire circuit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchymist View Post

There is none for 120V - 2 wire that I see.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
woodnthings is online now  
post #48 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 09:35 AM
Senior Member
 
Alchymist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central PA
Posts: 2,222
View Alchymist's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Quote: There is no NEMA receptacle for a 30 AMP 120 V, 2 wire circuit.




There is none for 120V - 2 wire that I see.
If you are talking an outlet without ground, true. But why would you even want a 120v 30 amp receptacle without a ground???

Alexis de Tocqueville was a very smart man.
Alchymist is offline  
post #49 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 09:55 AM
novice wood hacker
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 514
View d_slat's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jig_saw View Post
Heating produced in a wire has to do with it's resistance times square of the current. For a given resistance, heating increases with the square of the current. However, Ohm's law relates voltage to be the product of the current and the resistance. Therefore, the rate of heating (i.e., power) has to do with the product of current and voltage. Thus [email protected] will produce exactly the same heating in any given wire as [email protected] Your 30A fuse wire will have the same gauge as our 15A fuse.
Ohms law does not apply to the heating of a conductor like you are trying to describe here, since you won't see 120 or 240 volt drop across the conductor. Current is what heats the conductor, so 20a at 120v or 240v will produce the same heat in the conductor.
d_slat is offline  
post #50 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 01:20 PM
Senior Member
 
Tony B's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Dickinson, Tx. / Somerville, TX
Posts: 3,590
View Tony B's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by d_slat View Post
Ohms law does not apply to the heating of a conductor like you are trying to describe here, since you won't see 120 or 240 volt drop across the conductor. Current is what heats the conductor, so 20a at 120v or 240v will produce the same heat in the conductor.
Not quite, if we are talking the SAME circuit.
If a tool pulls 20A @120V, the same tool will pull only 10A at 220V.
The 20A running through a 12Ga wire will be warmer than 10A running through the same 12 ga wire.
With the higher current in the 120V circuit, we will also have a higher temp resulting in a higher resistance which will turn into a higher voltage drop reducing the efficiency of the 120V circuit. This gets compounded by the motor surge current also.
If an electrician were to wire a new 220V circuit he will most likely use at least a 10 ga wire and further decrease the line voltage drop resulting in better starting and running.
Your electric bill will not reflect these factors because they are usually minute changes and for short durations.


Bottom line is that if you used the same wires in your wall and changed the voltage from 120 to 240, you will be drawing only half the current.

Tony B



Retired woodworker, amongst other things, Sold full time cruising boat and now full time cruising in RV. Currently in Somerville, Tx
Tony B is online now  
post #51 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 01:44 PM
Sawdust Creator
 
ryan50hrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,047
View ryan50hrl's Photo Album My Photos
Guys....the theory of electrical engineering is all fine and well, but it's not practical in this setting. Standards and norms exist for a reason, use them. Electricians are not going to use 10 gauge wiring for a 15 amp 220 circuit, it's not necessary....period.

Anyone receiving advise should be getting advice based on industry standards, not what your uncle frank told you, or what makes you feel good. Leave theory to scientists and engineers, build your shops based on standards.

The tools don't make the craftsman....
ryan50hrl is offline  
post #52 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 03:49 PM
Senior Member
 
mat 60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Readfield ME
Posts: 449
View mat 60's Photo Album My Photos
Man..Is there anything that doesn't turn a pissing match here..LOL
Willy-N likes this.
mat 60 is offline  
post #53 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 04:38 PM
Sawdust Creator
 
ryan50hrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,047
View ryan50hrl's Photo Album My Photos
Just electrical, import tools, beer, and politics.
mat 60 likes this.

The tools don't make the craftsman....
ryan50hrl is offline  
The Following User Says Thank You to ryan50hrl For This Useful Post:
Shop_Rat (04-15-2016)
post #54 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 07:28 PM
Nine Thumbs
 
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: The Very Tip of Lake Michigan
Posts: 299
View Shop_Rat's Photo Album My Photos
You need woodworking advice? Go to a woodworking site. You need electrical advice? Go to an electrical site.

Too many folks THINK they know more than they actually do...
ryan50hrl and Willy-N like this.

Another $000,000,000.02 worth of advice,
Mark
Shop_Rat is offline  
post #55 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 09:37 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 25,995
View Steve Neul's Photo Album My Photos
I real reason the electric topic gets heated is nobody, not even electricians can agree. I've seen all to many electricians argue with each other.
Steve Neul is offline  
post #56 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 10:12 PM
Sawdust Creator
 
ryan50hrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,047
View ryan50hrl's Photo Album My Photos
It's true, and somehow in this modern age when actual data and research is available like never before in history, people are becoming less and less likely to actually do research.

I'd suspect if this argument were taking place in the 1950's equivalent of this place, someone would have found a reference manual that quoted actual codes and standards. Today, I'm finding in many things people prefer to take the word of random strangers as fact.

The tools don't make the craftsman....
ryan50hrl is offline  
post #57 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 10:17 PM
Sawdust Creator
 
ryan50hrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,047
View ryan50hrl's Photo Album My Photos
Like for example, that 14 gauge wiring will handle 15 amps just fine....20 amps at 110 volts Bandsaw-imageuploadedbywood-working-talk1460769421.735540.jpg

The tools don't make the craftsman....
ryan50hrl is offline  
post #58 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 10:19 PM
Sawdust Creator
 
ryan50hrl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 8,047
View ryan50hrl's Photo Album My Photos
By the way....if anyone wants the most useful book on earth....check it out.

20 amps at 110 volts Bandsaw-imageuploadedbywood-working-talk1460769571.678354.jpg

The tools don't make the craftsman....
ryan50hrl is offline  
post #59 of 76 Old 04-15-2016, 10:51 PM
Senior Member
 
Alchymist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central PA
Posts: 2,222
View Alchymist's Photo Album My Photos
Quote:
Originally Posted by ryan50hrl View Post
By the way....if anyone wants the most useful book on earth....check it out.

Attachment 232634
Those come in several different versions. Someone made off with my mechanical version, but still have the electrical/electronic/computer version.

Alexis de Tocqueville was a very smart man.
Alchymist is offline  
post #60 of 76 Old 04-16-2016, 12:03 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Illanoyed
Posts: 308
View Tree Hugger's Photo Album My Photos
I got nothing to add that hasn't been said ...so some random thoughts.


Back in the stone age when I took some course work in the electrical field the instructor said that with the nuclear power plants coming on line, electricity would be so cheap that they wouldn't even meter it.
How's that working out for everyone?

Knot Stumped ...just confused once in a while.
Tree Hugger is offline  
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now



In order to be able to post messages on the Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.

User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.

Password:


Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

Email Address:
OR

Log-in










Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Linear Mode



Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bandsaw Box videos Bob Ross 2.0 Project Showcase 1 03-24-2016 12:39 AM
Bandsaw versus table saw AND planer? JimGnitecki Power Tools & Machinery 50 01-11-2016 12:02 AM
Bandsaw help Toolman50 Power Tools & Machinery 7 12-24-2015 12:42 AM
Good Bandsaw? Nathan Vaughan Power Tools & Machinery 8 11-10-2015 08:47 PM
Cut circles on the bandsaw? deadherring General Woodworking Discussion 8 08-04-2015 09:03 AM

Posting Rules  
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

 
For the best viewing experience please update your browser to Google Chrome