20 amps at 110 volts Bandsaw - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #21 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony B View Post
If your dryer is not in constant use, you might see about doing the same set-up for your Table saw, if it can be rewired for 220v also.



When you make the extension cord for the 220V you will be using a dryer plug at one end. I would strongly urge you to change the 110V ends of both the cord and the tool. There are less expensive 220v plugs both male and female that can be used at the tool end. This will elimate any chance of accidentally plugging a 220V plug into a 110V socket or outlet because the less expensive 220v plugs and recepticals will not fit in a 110v socket. The pin configuration is different.

You absolutely need to change the plug, and buy the correct one. A 20 amp plug should only be used on a 20 amp circuit. This ensures you always know what your plugging in to.

The tools don't make the craftsman....
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post #22 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by TimPa View Post
if the motor is dual voltage (110v/220v) then you have the choice to run the tool on the 110v/20amp circuit, or a 220v/10a circuit.


a "typical" outlet circuit will have: 20 amp circuit breaker, 12 ga wire, and a 15 amp receptacle. after you verify the cb and wire, you should change the recep out for a 20 amp version to have a supply circuit capable of 20 amps for this tool.



this is for branch circuits feeding continuous loads, which are on for >3 hours time. not to say that you couldn't derate all branch ckts for an element of safety.
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Originally Posted by TimPa View Post
a proper 20 amp circuit is designed to supply a 20 amp load safely, with no overload conditions. if the over current protection device is tripping, there is an issue with the device and it should be looked at for a problem.
Does the brochure specifies a 20 amp at 120 volts circuit, or a draw of 20 amps at 120 volts. It the draw is truly 20 amps, it will not run on a 20 amp circuit - the instantaneous start current will pop a 20 amp breaker. If it specifies running it on a 20 amp circuit, then the nominal draw will be less.
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post #23 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 10:36 AM
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Originally Posted by ryan50hrl
Putting a 20 amp saw in a home shop on a 20 amp circuit is by no means pushing it. That saw will rarely ever see full amp draw, and when it does, it will be for a short amount of time. I have all of my circuits in my shop sized correctly, 15 amp circuits with 15 amp or less tools and 20 amp circuits for 15-20 amp tools. The only time I've EVER popped a breaker is when I stalled my RAS in really thick oak. No ones hobby shop is ever going to have the tools running at 100% draw for hours on end. I'm a firm believer that running a 30 amp circuit when a 20 amp circuit meets the requirements is a waste of money.
This is pushing it. I'd be surprised if the saw can even start if it truly pulls 20 amps.
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post #24 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeC
"You could probably do it yourself and save $" I do not think you should do this. Hire a professional. From your post it does not appear that work of this type in is your wheelhouse. George
Changing a motor over to 220 is easy. Unless you are a complete noob, there is no need to hire a professional. There is more involved in adding a 220 circuit. Although I have done it, I would recommend hiring a professional.
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post #25 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 11:51 AM
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BUT BEST if wired 220. this saves electricity and is easier on the motor during starting and operating.
I must respectfully disagree. The motor (wired appropriately) can't tell the difference between 20 amps at 120 V and 10 amps at 240 V; It uses the same amount of energy regardless.

The only real advantage of using a 15 amp circuit (either 120 or 240 V) is that you can get by with cheaper 14 gauge wire, whereas with a 20 amp (either 120 V or 240) circuit you need 12 gauge. One downside of 240 is that you need two slots in your panel, instead of one for a 120 circuit, and 2 pole (240 V) breakers are more expensive than 120.

I'd say if you already have a 20 amp 120V circuit in your work area, just use it. I assume you don't have a 240 line already installed, or you wouldn't be asking. If, down the road, you need 240 for a 240 only tool (e.g. big dust collector), you can have it wired sufficiently large to add the saw on as well.
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post #26 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by hwebb99 View Post
This is pushing it. I'd be surprised if the saw can even start if it truly pulls 20 amps.

I have every 15 amp rated tool in my shop on a 15 amp circuit, and every 20 amp took on a 20 amp circuit. Tools built from 1956 to 2015 and none of them have ever had a problem running on the correct circuit.

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post #27 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 12:18 PM
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By the way.....ratings exist for a reason. They're the safe operating standards of the system, they weren't determined by some chucklehead in a marketing department, they were determined by engineers and scientists based on actual data.

If the standard was that 14 gauge wiring could only handle 12 amps, that's what the standard would be.

The tools don't make the craftsman....
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post #28 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 12:36 PM
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That was a full load rating. The starting load is much higher. If you overloaded the tool, the load is much higher. My bandsaw pulls 16 amps, and I have tripped a 20 amp breaker.
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post #29 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 01:04 PM
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20 amps at 110 volts Bandsaw

I've never seen a tool that didn't have an issue that wouldn't run on the rated circuit. How old is your bandsaw?

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post #30 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 01:10 PM
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If you look in the breaker box, at the 240 v breakers for the dryer, you will see just how 2 new breakers need to be installed and wired.
The wire goes to the outlet. Very simple. I recently put in 2, 240 lines for a new AC install in our house.
Then again, "a man has to know his limitations"
If you are not comfortable, don't do it.
I had a friend who rewired his whole house, and had it inspected. No problems.
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post #31 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 02:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirate View Post
If you look in the breaker box, at the 240 v breakers for the dryer, you will see just how 2 new breakers need to be installed and wired.

The wire goes to the outlet. Very simple. I recently put in 2, 240 lines for a new AC install in our house.

Then again, "a man has to know his limitations"

If you are not comfortable, don't do it.

I had a friend who rewired his whole house, and had it inspected. No problems.

My dad and I wired his whole house when it was built and passed inspection.
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post #32 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 02:48 PM
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Don't understand what the big deal is about someone wiring their house and "it passed inspection". What passed in one location may not pass in another. And inspectors have been known to miss things. Having done so does not make one an electrician. Just saying. YMMV.
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post #33 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 02:58 PM
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20 amps at 110 volts Bandsaw

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Originally Posted by Alchymist View Post
Don't understand what the big deal is about someone wiring their house and "it passed inspection". What passed in one location may not pass in another. And inspectors have been known to miss things. Having done so does not make one an electrician. Just saying. YMMV.

You're saying someone who wired a whole house and passed inspection is incapable of changing a motor from 110 to 220?
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post #34 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by hwebb99 View Post
You're saying someone who wired a whole house and passed inspection is incapable of changing a motor from 110 to 220?
Not what I said at all. Never intimated who was or wasn't capable of doing any electrical task. Just commenting that just because someone did a certain job and got through it doesn't make him an electrician.

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post #35 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 03:11 PM
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Still arguing this topic? Go ahead and plug the saw in the outlet. Keep an eye on the motor temperature and the breaker will tell you if it will work or not.
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post #36 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
Still arguing this topic? Go ahead and plug the saw in the outlet. Keep an eye on the motor temperature and the breaker will tell you if it will work or not.

I agree with Steve. 20A @ 120V is no big deal. I guess your circuit breaker is 30A. Here in India we use 15A @240V circuit breaker for power hungry appliances.

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post #37 of 76 Old 04-13-2016, 05:27 PM
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You have no idea...

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Originally Posted by Jig_saw View Post
I agree with Steve. 20A @ 120V is no big deal. I guess your circuit breaker is 30A. Here in India we use 15A @240V circuit breaker for power hungry appliances.
To have a circuit rated at 20 AMPs at 120 V is the maximum that no. 12 GA wire will handle AND you will need a 20 AMP rated receptacle. You will rarely, if ever find a 30 AMP breaker on a 120 V circuit.

It is a big deal. You can NOT compare a 15 AMP 240 V circuit to a 20 AMP 120 V circuit in any way.

The higher the voltage, the lower the current draw in motors. Watts is watts and there's no way around it. Watts equals VOLTS X AMPs. One watt is equal to 1/746 HP. One HP is equal to 746 watts. A one HP motor typically draws 12 AMPs on 120 Volts at run condition.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #38 of 76 Old 04-14-2016, 10:01 AM
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Maybe it is you who has to read physics again

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Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
To have a circuit rated at 20 AMPs at 120 V is the maximum that no. 12 GA wire will handle AND you will need a 20 AMP rated receptacle. You will rarely, if ever find a 30 AMP breaker on a 120 V circuit.

It is a big deal. You can NOT compare a 15 AMP 240 V circuit to a 20 AMP 120 V circuit in any way.

The higher the voltage, the lower the current draw in motors. Watts is watts and there's no way around it. Watts equals VOLTS X AMPs. One watt is equal to 1/746 HP. One HP is equal to 746 watts. A one HP motor typically draws 12 AMPs on 120 Volts at run condition.

Heating produced in a wire has to do with it's resistance times square of the current. For a given resistance, heating increases with the square of the current. However, Ohm's law relates voltage to be the product of the current and the resistance. Therefore, the rate of heating (i.e., power) has to do with the product of current and voltage. Thus [email protected] will produce exactly the same heating in any given wire as [email protected] Your 30A fuse wire will have the same gauge as our 15A fuse.

Keep thy axe sharp.
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post #39 of 76 Old 04-14-2016, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jig_saw View Post
Heating produced in a wire has to do with it's resistance times square of the current. For a given resistance, heating increases with the square of the current. However, Ohm's law relates voltage to be the product of the current and the resistance. Therefore, the rate of heating (i.e., power) has to do with the product of current and voltage. Thus [email protected] will produce exactly the same heating in any given wire as [email protected] Your 30A fuse wire will have the same gauge as our 15A fuse.
Not sure what that was all about, but:

The bottom line is that wire and breaker size is all about getting the most power to a load with the least voltage drop for the least cost.

A 120 volt 20 amp #12 wire circuit is the most common circuit across the country. 120 volt 15 amp #14 wire circuits are mostly for lighting. (One reason for not installing the 15 amp circuits for receptacles if that someone is sure to come along and plug in a heater, toaster, whatever).

Anyway, the desired result is to deliver power to the load with (usually) no more than a 3% voltage drop. Thus a 20 amp #12 circuit is the minimum desirable for a workshop, or for that matter, residential outlets. This will handle most domestic appliances, and in the shop most hand power tools as well as the smaller table saws, jointers, planers, etc, up to about a 2HP or so limit.

Now, if the run is long, (and this applies to any 120 or 240 volt circuit) at some point the voltage drop will exceed 3%, and the solution is to either increase wire size, or increase the voltage. If a 120 volt load can be switched to 240, then that's one solution, which requires only a different breaker. However this can only be done if it is not a circuit with a number of outlets.

If, however, the circuit in question is already a 240 Volt circuit, an increase in wire size is the only practical solution. An example here would be a 3HP compressor being replaced by a 5 HP model.

Bear in mind also, as the current requirements increase a number of different connection requirements come into play.
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post #40 of 76 Old 04-14-2016, 01:29 PM
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To have a circuit rated at 20 AMPs at 120 V ... you will need a 20 AMP rated receptacle.
Sorry, not true; as long as you have more than a single receptacle, you can use 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit. It's very common in residential wiring, particularly with kitchen circuits. BTW, a duplex receptacle counts as more than one, so a single 15 amp receptacle is okay.
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