Table saw paddle switch - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 01-08-2019, 10:47 PM Thread Starter
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Table saw paddle switch

I purchased a paddle swith for my delta table saw, but I can't figure out how to wire it up. The saw is a 110v with a 1 1/2 hp motor. The wired switch, on the left, is the toggle switch that was with it when I bought it, used and abused. The paddle switch, back side shown, is on the right. It seems pretty simple, red(hot) and white(neutral) wires are power in, and the black(hot) and green go to the motor.
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post #2 of 22 Old 01-08-2019, 11:28 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry, little more info on the switches.

The first switch I purchased was a shop fox I got through grizzly. I thought for sure it would work with a 110v motor. Maybe I was wrong. I thought I got the wrong one after I got it because paper says 220v.

Then I purchased a Big horn that said for 110v, but I can't get it to work either.

Getting tied of fooling with it. Any help will be greatly appreciated.

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post #3 of 22 Old 01-08-2019, 11:48 PM
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OK, this may evoke some discussion .......

First general rule of switches is the black or hot wire is the interrupted or "switched" wire in a single pole switch like your wall light. The white wire or neutral is never switched on a single pole switch. The green wire or ground goes to the frame of the cabinet or motor. The red wire is not used in a 120 v single pole switch.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Wood...e-Switch/D4160
A single pole switch has 2 terminals, 1 hot in and 1 switched hot "out"

Your paddle switch appears to be a double pole switch for a 240 volt circuit. Double poles means that both hot wires, red and black are interrupted for each 120V leg of the 240V supply to the motor.
http://www.grizzly.com/products/Wood...e-Switch/D4159
A double pole switch has 4 terminals, 2 hots in and 2 switched hots out.



Your 1 1/2 HP motor will draw 16 AMPs on 120 V, start up so the switch must be rated for that. Your power cord should be 12 GA wire,
although, 14 GA will work in short lengths under 20 ft.



You can interrupt the white neutral wire by using a double pole switch, but it serves no real purpose.
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The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-08-2019 at 11:55 PM.
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post #4 of 22 Old 01-09-2019, 01:20 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you for reply. The red wire ran from a junction box on saw to the switch, so it's color isn't really an issue for me. I don't know why Delta used it other than to signify that it's the hot wire. All wires on the saw are no smaller than 14 gage. I don't know why someone wired the old toggle switch in the way they did either.

Black=hot
White=neutral
Green & C = common or ground
Maybe I'm over thinking this switch wiring. It has 4 poles, 2 not labeled, 1- line in and 1- power out. Is this the way it should be wired?

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post #5 of 22 Old 01-09-2019, 06:15 AM
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Looks good, but

Check it with your continuity meter to make certain the switch is switching the hot wires. You might check the unlabeled contacts to see what they do also. They might be used to switch a shop vac for dust collection...?

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-09-2019 at 09:03 AM.
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post #6 of 22 Old 01-09-2019, 08:20 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodnthings View Post
Check it with your continuity meter to make certain the switch is switching the hot wires. You might check the unlabeled contact to see what they do also. They might be used to switch a shop vac for dust collection...?
It would be great if I could wire in my vac system, so it would work off same switch.

My main goal was to hook up a paddle switch, so I could shut off the saw with my knee, and that way I can keep my full attention on what I'm cutting instead of reaching for an off switch.

Thanks to both of you for the advice. Maybe I can work on it later today.
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post #7 of 22 Old 01-09-2019, 09:01 AM
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The switch shown in the first post (red paddle switch) is the same switch provided by several vendors, including Grizzly, price varies. That particular one ( or OEM equivalent) is used on tools with dual voltage motors, and typically the hot and the neutral are switched on a 120 volt setup. This is done so that later switching the motor to 240 is simply switching the wires at the motor and installing a new plug. No switch wiring is needed. The neutral wire at the switch becomes a hot leg of the 240. If the motor on the equipment you are installing the switch on is 120 only, only the hot lead needs to be switched, but switching the neutral doesn't hurt anything. A quick check with an ohmmeter will determine which terminal is which on the new switch.

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post #8 of 22 Old 01-09-2019, 01:07 PM
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confused. post 1 pic shows a single 4 wire cable B-R-W-G coming into the switch. confusing in that several wires should be coming from a power source and several to the motor - was expecting 2 wire bundles coming into the switch, did you remove any wires before that pic was taken? if not, the connections are all being made somewhere else.


in that case you will need to sort out:
incoming power source blk, wht, gnd
motor wires maybe T numbers or colors (check motor plate for wiring)


then you can wire as you have drawn, interrupting the hot (120 vac DPST) switch or just use half the switch (240 vac DPDT)
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post #9 of 22 Old 01-09-2019, 01:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPa View Post
confused. post 1 pic shows a single 4 wire cable B-R-W-G coming into the switch. confusing in that several wires should be coming from a power source and several to the motor - was expecting 2 wire bundles coming into the switch, did you remove any wires before that pic was taken? if not, the connections are all being made somewhere else.


in that case you will need to sort out:
incoming power source blk, wht, gnd
motor wires maybe T numbers or colors (check motor plate for wiring)


then you can wire as you have drawn, interrupting the hot (120 vac DPST) switch or just use half the switch (240 vac DPDT)
I'm thinking the wiring shown on the original switch is a bastardized setup, and the wire colors are irrelevant. i surmise that one set of wires are incoming 120v and the other set are out to the motor, with another junction box somewhere where all the other ends of the wires shown make connection to power and motor wires. Green wires are never switched, and never carry power.

Alexis de Tocqueville was a very smart man.
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post #10 of 22 Old 01-09-2019, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimPa View Post
confused. post 1 pic shows a single 4 wire cable B-R-W-G coming into the switch. confusing in that several wires should be coming from a power source and several to the motor - was expecting 2 wire bundles coming into the switch, did you remove any wires before that pic was taken? if not, the connections are all being made somewhere else.


in that case you will need to sort out:
incoming power source blk, wht, gnd
motor wires maybe T numbers or colors (check motor plate for wiring)


then you can wire as you have drawn, interrupting the hot (120 vac DPST) switch or just use half the switch (240 vac DPDT)
Great advice, never assume the wiring on a "used and abused" machine is done the way you would expect it to be.

Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something -Plato

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post #11 of 22 Old 01-09-2019, 03:37 PM
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That switch is a dual voltage model. It can be used for single or 3 phase.
This lifted from the amazon page;

Big Horn 18805 Panic Stop Switch. A recessed ON button protects against accidental starting and a large OFF Magnetic paddle ensures fast shut off every time. This dual-Voltage, single-phase Paddle Switch is rated for 2 Horsepower motors up to 35-Amp, 3 Horsepower motors up to 20-Amp and for Three Phase Paddle Switch is rated for 5 Horsepower motors up to 20-Amp, and 10 Horsepower motors up to 15-Amp.

It should have come with wiring diagrams to match to your machine.

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post #12 of 22 Old 01-10-2019, 10:37 PM
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Posted in the "Hand Tools" sub-forum. Can't help with the problem but thought this a bit funny.

"The kind of man who wants the government to adopt and enforce his ideas is always the kind of man whose ideas are idiotic." -H.L. Mencken
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post #13 of 22 Old 01-10-2019, 10:47 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnybob View Post
That switch is a dual voltage model. It can be used for single or 3 phase.
This lifted from the amazon page;

Big Horn 18805 Panic Stop Switch. A recessed ON button protects against accidental starting and a large OFF Magnetic paddle ensures fast shut off every time. This dual-Voltage, single-phase Paddle Switch is rated for 2 Horsepower motors up to 35-Amp, 3 Horsepower motors up to 20-Amp and for Three Phase Paddle Switch is rated for 5 Horsepower motors up to 20-Amp, and 10 Horsepower motors up to 15-Amp.

It should have come with wiring diagrams to match to your machine.
The Big Horn switch didn't come with instructions of any kind. The Shop Fox I purchased did, but either switch I can not get to work. Except the Shop Fox switch will run saw as long as I hold the button in. This is the Shop Fox instructions it came with. Frustrating
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post #14 of 22 Old 01-10-2019, 11:50 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnTC View Post
Posted in the "Hand Tools" sub-forum. Can't help with the problem but thought this a bit funny.
My apologies. Stupid droid phone.
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post #15 of 22 Old 01-11-2019, 01:44 AM
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when you push the button in ....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roybrew View Post
The Big Horn switch didn't come with instructions of any kind. The Shop Fox I purchased did, but either switch I can not get to work. Except the Shop Fox switch will run saw as long as I hold the button in. This is the Shop Fox instructions it came with. Frustrating

Pushing the "ON" button in should result in a "click" and it should stay in ..... no wires connected at all. If it doesn't click, it's defective.
Then checking with a continuity meter, the "ON" position should show continuity, and the "OFF" should show none between terminals 13 and 14. It is a mechanical type switch, not a magnetic type or latching switch.

If you wire it according to the diagram you drew and posted here, post no. 4, with a single pole ON/OFF switch, interrupting the black wire to the motor, as a test, the motor should run. If not, there are other issues. I now see that you are showing connections "across" the switch not up and down the switch.



Did you do as I suggested in post 5?

You NEED to check the continuity BOTH ways, but I think the switch operates "vertically", wires coming in and going out like most other switches and that's why the buttons are vertical!


Do not get confused by 220 V or 3 phase wiring. You only have 1 phase 120 V supply. Switch only the black wire, no others.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-11-2019 at 02:23 AM.
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post #16 of 22 Old 01-11-2019, 02:11 AM
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The button that only works while holding in sounds like an Non Voltage Return switch (NVR) If so you have it wired backwards.
Normally there will be numbers on the connections.
Live and neutral in would on 1 and 2. Live and neutral out to the motor would be on 3 and 4.
An NVR switch cuts both lines if the machine is single phase 110.
If your machine is 3 phase the wiring will be a bit different.

If you are using 2 lives to get 220 volts it will be different again

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post #17 of 22 Old 01-11-2019, 02:37 AM Thread Starter
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Yes I checked with meter and had conductivity between 13 and 14, and 23 and 24, but only when button was.pushed in. The button wouldn't stay in on its own. Did some digging on line and found this diagram This was not included with the switch.This is picture of back of switch. I thought the A1 terminal was maybe broke off. I brought the switch to work, and asked one of our electricians. He said it was a switch that was made to be pushed on to a pre-wired control panel. He said I needed a jumper with a male end on it, so it can be pushed into A1 slot, and also connected to #24. This charges the coil that will keep green button pulled in until red button is pushed. This eliminates any false starts in the event that someone just unplugs the machine with out turning it off first. I hope he's right, or I'm just going to mount a light switch on it.

Thank you all for the help. I'll post if it works or not.
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post #18 of 22 Old 01-11-2019, 07:56 AM
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yes, as the page title refers, it is a magnetic switch. the contacts will be momentary, only have continuity while depressed. when power is on the switch, the voltage will "latch" the contacts on. wire as per the drawing and it will work fine. you can solder to those stab on terminals, or crimp on some female terminals onto the end of your wires.
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post #19 of 22 Old 01-12-2019, 10:49 AM
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Word of warning if you intend to solder wires to a spade terminal on an NVR switch.... The wiring on the internal solenoid is less than a human hair thin. If you apply too much heat to that spade terminal its likely you will burn out the coil wire on the solenoid and the switch will not be repairable.
Much safer to use the proper sized crimp and squeeze it slightly so that its a tight fit.

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post #20 of 22 Old 01-13-2019, 11:23 AM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for advice and input. I really do appreciate the help you gave me.

But.... forget it! I followed the wiring diagram accordingly. I'm done with it
Going to install simple light switch for now, tired of wasting time. Aaarh!
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