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post #61 of 80 Old 08-03-2012, 06:33 PM
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Hi All,

I'm new here. I'm a new woodworker -- I've built about 4 projects, but a very rough job. Turns out, I really enjoy the process.

I'm currently building a standing desk. The plans (here, on lowes, -- http://www.lowescreativeideas.com/id...desk_0109.aspx). Well, part of the plans call for making a table top out of a series of boards glued together and held with biscuits. After talking with a buddy about how to do the biscuits -- he happened to mention that I'd need to "run it through the planer."

Well, I gave him "that look." He said it again "the planer" (pause) (more of my look) "you have a planer, right?" Umm, no.

So, that started my research into buying one (and my wife auditing my internet searches that I'm buying another tool (AGAIN)). And, the thinking/problem-solving began. Even if I did have a planer, I could only plane the individual boards, not the table top itself (it'll be, something like 24"x30"). So, I could plane it by hand.

In another place, someone said, you don't want to learn how to do it by hand on an individual project. Actually, I do. I often learn that way -- I can be very methodical. I work with very cheap wood, and I'm happy to redo things when my method fails. Moreover, I believe it is tremendously beneficial to my learning curve to learn things that occur during real world builds; as opposed to practicing for what might occur. Because my experience is that practice in the "real world" of actually building a project, is nearly always more productive/insightful/efficient than trying to workout a theory -- e.g., a solution in search of an answer.

Now, I've been looking like crazy for a used power bench planer that's a fantastic buy -- but haven't gotten lucky enough yet. While I may sand down the desktop -- it may be that I workout how to make the hand planes work. It'll be a learning experience either way.

I hope to share my progress here. In the meanwhile, I will force myself to read/buy/collect/study about 3-10 books on woodworking hand tools, before I spend additional dollars. That said, I love the idea (posted above) about spending $25 bucks a HD or Lowes for an off the shelf plane -- if nothing else -- as a learning experience to see if you can just make it work. Sounds like a great idea to me.

c.
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post #62 of 80 Old 08-15-2012, 05:46 PM Thread Starter
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I learned something new today about spoke shaves. I have a nice little #53 Stanley and sharpened the blade a little today and gave it a try, I love that little shaver, it is so smooth it is unreal.

I also have what I thought was another spoke shave, I found out a #80 Stanley isn't a spoke shave at all, it is a cabinet scraper. I kept wondering how in the world the shavings would get out. I had the thing backwards, but now knowing it is a scraper, I was holding it backwards. I didn't sharpen the blade because I didn't know how it is supposed to be sharpened. I didn't flatten the sole because I don't know if it is supposed to be like that. I need to do a little research about it. The blade does have the little heart on it though.

I haven't had much time to work with the planes Keith Matthewson gave me yet but I sure want to a little later. I wish I had taken the time to learn about planes back when I was in business, they sure would have made life easier.

http://www.diychatroom.com/

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post #63 of 80 Old 08-15-2012, 06:18 PM
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J as you know now, not every tool that looks like a spoke shave is indeed a spoke shave. The 80 as you know now is scraper and the blade must be sharpened as a scraper but what a good tool.

There are also chair devils different things, try a No 66 also a scraper ( scratch stock) looks like a spoke shave but is not,also a very good tool Welcome to the slope J.
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post #64 of 80 Old 08-15-2012, 10:05 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Billy De View Post
J as you know now, not every tool that looks like a spoke shave is indeed a spoke shave. The 80 as you know now is scraper and the blade must be sharpened as a scraper but what a good tool.

There are also chair devils different things, try a No 66 also a scraper ( scratch stock) looks like a spoke shave but is not,also a very good tool Welcome to the slope J.
Billy, do I sharpen the #80 blade like a regular card scraper or do I sharpen it like it is now, it has a bevel like a spoke shave or plane.

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post #65 of 80 Old 08-15-2012, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jiju1943
Billy, do I sharpen the #80 blade like a regular card scraper or do I sharpen it like it is now, it has a bevel like a spoke shave or plane.
Ehh??? Makes me wonder if it's the correct iron or if the previous owner was just a numpty... It should be burnished like any card scraper.

Pictures?
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post #66 of 80 Old 08-15-2012, 11:34 PM Thread Starter
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Ehh??? Makes me wonder if it's the correct iron or if the previous owner was just a numpty... It should be burnished like any card scraper.

Pictures?
Tom I will try to remember to get some pictures up tomorrow.

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post #67 of 80 Old 08-16-2012, 07:16 PM
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The #80 is sharpened on a bevel. The bevel is just slightly more than the angle the blade is held on by the tool. Essentially, the bevel makes the scraper blade edge parallel with the bottom of the tool with a little favor to the long point of the bevel. If the blade was sharpened square, the back edge of the scraper blade would ride on the work, not the front leading edge with the burnished curl. It wouldn't work unless you pulled the tool backwards which is not how the tool is used.

Look at the thumb screw in the center, this faces the user. Your thumbs go on either side of the thumb screw and you push the tool away from you. The thumb screw puts a slight bend in the blade, the same way your fingers do with a plain card scraper. The more the bend, the coarser the cut. The bottom of the #80 should be flat and the blade's beveled edge should match the sole. You can set the blade by loosening all the screws, placing the sole on a piece of paper on a flat surface, then letting the blade touch the flat surface. The blade sticks out of the bottom of the #80 about the thickness of the paper. This, in conjunction with the bend the thumb screw puts on the blade, is how you adjust for fineness of cut.

The #80 is a bit coarse compared to a hand held card scraper. It can make quick work of roughly leveling the joints on a glued up panel, for example. It would be a bit too aggressive for leveling marquetry or inlay work. The angle of the blade is fixed and you don't have the finesse you want for more delicate and finished surface work.

Like all scrapers, they cut into summer wood much more easily than winter wood. The bend also makes them cut a slight radius in the surface. Scrapers are meant to be used on open grained hardwoods. They will only gouge softwoods and not shave a fine cut. Over using a card or tool held scraper can lead to an undulating surface, don't get carried away!
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post #68 of 80 Old 08-16-2012, 10:10 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hammer1 View Post
The #80 is sharpened on a bevel. The bevel is just slightly more than the angle the blade is held on by the tool. Essentially, the bevel makes the scraper blade edge parallel with the bottom of the tool with a little favor to the long point of the bevel. If the blade was sharpened square, the back edge of the scraper blade would ride on the work, not the front leading edge with the burnished curl. It wouldn't work unless you pulled the tool backwards which is not how the tool is used.

Look at the thumb screw in the center, this faces the user. Your thumbs go on either side of the thumb screw and you push the tool away from you. The thumb screw puts a slight bend in the blade, the same way your fingers do with a plain card scraper. The more the bend, the coarser the cut. The bottom of the #80 should be flat and the blade's beveled edge should match the sole. You can set the blade by loosening all the screws, placing the sole on a piece of paper on a flat surface, then letting the blade touch the flat surface. The blade sticks out of the bottom of the #80 about the thickness of the paper. This, in conjunction with the bend the thumb screw puts on the blade, is how you adjust for fineness of cut.

The #80 is a bit coarse compared to a hand held card scraper. It can make quick work of roughly leveling the joints on a glued up panel, for example. It would be a bit too aggressive for leveling marquetry or inlay work. The angle of the blade is fixed and you don't have the finesse you want for more delicate and finished surface work.

Like all scrapers, they cut into summer wood much more easily than winter wood. The bend also makes them cut a slight radius in the surface. Scrapers are meant to be used on open grained hardwoods. They will only gouge softwoods and not shave a fine cut. Over using a card or tool held scraper can lead to an undulating surface, don't get carried away!
Thanks Hammer, I really appreciate you taking the time to tell us about the #80, I will copy and keep this in my file.

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post #69 of 80 Old 08-16-2012, 10:38 PM
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Hammer walk me through this; if the blade is prepared square the trailing edge is away from the work and not riding on it and the leading edge with its burnished curl is the cutting edge.
Now if there is a bevel on the blade where would the bevel go ? To the back for what purpose?
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post #70 of 80 Old 08-17-2012, 10:56 AM
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It is never too late to pursue what you really want! Brave of you to have taken the first step. You are lucky, the internet is a convenient source of information.
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post #71 of 80 Old 08-18-2012, 05:48 AM
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J I can not really comment on Hammers method of Fettling the scraper blade (would have liked to hear more on it) I always square the blade up just like a regular card scraper before burnishing it.

As you can see in the pic it works and I`V never had the problems that Hammer describes.

There is also a pic of a NO 66 scratch stock.

Two spokeshaves flat face for external curves round face for internal curves and of course the No 80. Billy
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post #72 of 80 Old 08-18-2012, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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Billy, I have been looking on line and folks sharpen the blade on the #80 and others both ways, I guess it is all in what a person gets use to. I will try it both ways and see which works best for me. I really appreciate the input.

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post #73 of 80 Old 08-22-2012, 08:12 PM
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Hammer1 is the preferred way of sharpening and his other comments are spot on. For a finer finish use a 112.
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post #74 of 80 Old 08-23-2012, 11:13 AM
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Showcasing beautiful hand planes here.
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post #75 of 80 Old 09-11-2012, 01:22 PM Thread Starter
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Looks like I missed out on a #8 I found online a few days back. The man never called me and I didn't have his number. Oh well maybe a little later.

I am reading everything I can about hand planes, this is really interesting and without some direction I don't know if a person would ever get it right. One thing I am trying to do in my shop is downsize as my shop is very small and so disorganized it is unreal. I have a Unisaw which takes up so much room it is really in the way but so far I haven't figured a way to do all the table saw will do with smaller or hand tools so that I can sell it.

I am at the age that I can not handle full sheets of plywood or heavy things anymore. I want to be able to go out in the shop and do things in a nice organized shop with as many hand tools as possible. Discovering how some of the hand planes work and how to tune them is great, I only wished I had taken advantage of some advice my grand dad had to give.

I have a setup with horses that I can place a sheet of plywood onto without lifting and I had a couple of aluminum guides made for my circular saw which is dead on while ripping sheet goods. If I can figure a way to make very thin rips then maybe I can get rid of the big saw. I would really like to be as independent as possible from power tools but with my arms as they are I am locked into using some power tools.

As I read last night, even with power tools there is still a need for finish planes as most power tools are considered coarse tools. I am just rambling so I will shut up now.

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post #76 of 80 Old 09-16-2012, 09:27 PM Thread Starter
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I am still learning and have a question or two. Can a #5 be a scrub plane, a #7 or #8 a planer and a #3 or #4 be a smoother? Another question, where does the transitional plane come in or does it need too.

I made a sharpening jig this past week and it works great, I sharpened my #4 and it really cuts great, I still don't have it sharp enough to cut across end grain on red oak and leave a shiny trail but it does cut easy across end grain. Thanks to y'all I have the plane tuned almost where I think it should be, it does make paper thin curls with very little effort.

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post #77 of 80 Old 09-16-2012, 09:49 PM
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I've got a related question that maybe can be answered at the same time as the above. When I cut across end grain (pine) my block plane screams like a banchee. Why?
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post #78 of 80 Old 09-16-2012, 10:38 PM Thread Starter
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I've got a related question that maybe can be answered at the same time as the above. When I cut across end grain (pine) my block plane screams like a banchee. Why?
Do you wax the foot on your's? That seemed to help a lot on mine.

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post #79 of 80 Old 09-17-2012, 08:36 AM
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Jim, a couple of years ago I was in almost the same spot as you, except for the retired part. It started innocently for me. I've had a few block planes and a couple of #4s that I used for carpentry. The second motivator was my wife was always dragging me to antique shops and such, and I started looking at old tools and planes. I stated to research how to make the planes work a little better and get them restored. I never realized it was such a slippery slope. Take a look at my blog, http://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/

I've restored something in the neighborhood of 300-400 planes in the last few years. I wonder sometime why I love doing it so m uch, but to take a piece of rust, and turn it into a working, nice looking piece of history is just so rewarding. I sell many duplicates, but at last count I had over 250, and that was several months ago.

I've branched off into Sargent plane now and I'm working on a complete set of type 11s.

Feel free to bounce anything off of me. I don't consider myself to be any where's near an expert, but I've learned so much in the past few years.

Here is a list of resource sites I use. You may find them helpful. http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/24092
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post #80 of 80 Old 09-17-2012, 10:41 AM Thread Starter
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Jim, a couple of years ago I was in almost the same spot as you, except for the retired part. It started innocently for me. I've had a few block planes and a couple of #4s that I used for carpentry. The second motivator was my wife was always dragging me to antique shops and such, and I started looking at old tools and planes. I stated to research how to make the planes work a little better and get them restored. I never realized it was such a slippery slope. Take a look at my blog, http://timetestedtools.wordpress.com/

I've restored something in the neighborhood of 300-400 planes in the last few years. I wonder sometime why I love doing it so m uch, but to take a piece of rust, and turn it into a working, nice looking piece of history is just so rewarding. I sell many duplicates, but at last count I had over 250, and that was several months ago.

I've branched off into Sargent plane now and I'm working on a complete set of type 11s.

Feel free to bounce anything off of me. I don't consider myself to be any where's near an expert, but I've learned so much in the past few years.

Here is a list of resource sites I use. You may find them helpful. http://lumberjocks.com/donwilwol/blog/24092
Good gravy, the bug bit you big time. I am trying to hold it down to just the planes I need and not collect, but I feel the urge creeping in, especially when I see a specialty plane. I think of all the years I have wasted not having planes.

At first I started looking for planes online just in the area I live, now I look everywhere. I found a nest of them in the northwest but shipping would be too high from there. I appreciate your offer, I may just take you up on it.

http://www.diychatroom.com/

BigJim

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