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post #1 of 48 Old 01-02-2013, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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Latest rust bucket planes

Today I stopped by a local "antique and collector" store, more like a permanent flea market. I wanted to see if they had any new old hand planes.

I picked up two planes which were in the worst shape. A total of $10 for the pair. Perhaps I paid too much, but not worth the haggling.

This one says "SARGENT" on the lever cap. The casting has "MADE IN USA". Otherwise no markings. The frog appears fixed into the casting. I will not be able to confirm until I take this apart.
Likely a Sargent low cost version of the equivalent of a Stanley #3.

Latest rust bucket planes-plane_sargent_3_right_side_1121_edited-1.jpg

This one is a Stanley Bailey.
The casting has Bailey on the front of the knob and MADE IN USA behind the knob. There is the knob support ring.

The back of the casting has No 5. No patent dates.

The lever cap has the kidney shaped hole.

Latest rust bucket planes-plane_stanley_5_right_side_1123_edited-1.jpg

In a separate thread Mengtian and Chris Curl expressed interest in a Sargent 3416 transational plane. I think I would like to send this onto Chris.

Mengtian does not have a No 3, either Stanley or Sargent, so I will give you first refusal on the Sargent.

Kevin K mentioned he was looking for a No 5. I will give you first refusal on the No 5.

Please decide based on these pictures taken as soon as I got home.

I will update the thread as the restorations proceed. No problems if you want to pass, but if you do, then I will make the final planes available to others.
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post #2 of 48 Old 01-02-2013, 07:52 PM
(clever wood pun here)
 
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Dave! It looks like you have your work cut out for you yet again. I can't wait to see how they clean up!

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post #3 of 48 Old 01-02-2013, 08:09 PM
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I'm interested in a no 5 as well at some point should you have one you are willing to part with.
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post #4 of 48 Old 01-02-2013, 08:14 PM Thread Starter
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Starting the restore on the Sargent

I have just taken the Sargent apart.

Good news is that all the screws came loose without any issues.

The frog does adjust. It just does not have the adjusting screw from the back.

The rust was more superficial than it looked. I removed a lot of the rust with wet-dry paper to save the Evapo-Rust.

The iron shows "SARGENT" No 408" on the blade. This may be a Sargent Smooth plane. I appreciate if anyone can provide more information.

The cap iron appears to be chrome plated. This was a surprise.

The lever cap was nickel plated. Not sure where the odd colour comes from.

All the steel components are now in the Evapo-Rust for overnight soaking.

The knob and tote are not cracked, but will need to at least be sanded and refinished. Once I get to sanding I will determine if they are usable or need to be replaced.

I will work on the Sargent and get this restored before working on the No 5.

Stay tuned for more updates.
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post #5 of 48 Old 01-02-2013, 08:39 PM
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Dave, In case you don't already have these, here are a couple of links for a little more info on Sargent planes. The first is a link to a "The Sargent Planes Page" which has a listing of Model numbers and production dates but not much else. The author of the site says he plans to include lots more info, but I've had the site bookmarked for a year or so and nothing seems to have been added.

http://www.sargent-planes.com/

According to the site, the 408 planes were manufactured from 1887 to 1950.

The second link is a link to a Sargent Hand Plane forum. It only has about 10 threads in the last year, but one of them was only a week ago so there may be some knowledgeable people there to answer questions.

http://www.handplaneforums.com/viewforum.php?f=4

I don't think there is a web resource out there that compares to those for SB planes or if there is I haven't found it yet.

"Good Behavior is the last refuge of mediocrity" -- Henry S. Haskins
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post #6 of 48 Old 01-02-2013, 08:51 PM Thread Starter
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Dave, In case you don't already have these, here are a couple of links for a little more info on Sargent planes. The first is a link to a "The Sargent Planes Page" which has a listing of Model numbers and production dates but not much else. The author of the site says he plans to include lots more info, but I've had the site bookmarked for a year or so and nothing seems to have been added.

http://www.sargent-planes.com/

According to the site, the 408 planes were manufactured from 1887 to 1950.

The second link is a link to a Sargent Hand Plane forum. It only has about 10 threads in the last year, but one of them was only a week ago so there may be some knowledgeable people there to answer questions.

http://www.handplaneforums.com/viewforum.php?f=4

I don't think there is a web resource out there that compares to those for SB planes or if there is I haven't found it yet.
Thanks for the response. I had visited the first link which told me "408" was a smoothing plane. I did not know the second link, but a search for "408" did not turn up much.

The Stanley-Bailey planes do have a rich amount of sites and very detailed information. I know Sargent was a well known plane manufacturer for a long time, but it is not easy to find equivalent information.
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post #7 of 48 Old 01-02-2013, 08:55 PM
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do you use evapo-rust pretty much for all your plane restoration projects?
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post #8 of 48 Old 01-02-2013, 09:03 PM
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Thanks Dave! Do you have a thread that teaches us how you restore them? They come out so beautiful that I'd like to do the same on mine.
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post #9 of 48 Old 01-02-2013, 10:16 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Dave! Do you have a thread that teaches us how you restore them? They come out so beautiful that I'd like to do the same on mine.
I have one thread, but really just documenting my progress.

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f11/l...t-plane-43433/

TimeTestedTools (Don) has a better tutorial.

http://timetestedtools.wordpress.com...re-the-dw-way/

The process is not magic, just a series of steps.

The rust removal can be Evapo-Rust, or good old wet-dry paper and water or e.g. WD-40 for the fluid.

Lapping the sole is easy if you have a flat reference surface. Another example of using wet-dry paper.

I have only done a handful of restorations, but the common aspect is that the blades were previously sharpened by a person who did not know what they were doing.

Today's Sargent is no different. A bad job free hand on a grinding wheel. I will be able to fix, but it is sad to see another botched sharpening.

I am not seeing new challenges in this restore, just the normal steps.
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post #10 of 48 Old 01-02-2013, 11:11 PM
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Those will be nice, David. Nice of you to help the new guys, too
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post #11 of 48 Old 01-03-2013, 01:16 AM
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most antique stores in my area don't carry vintage tools. when asked why, they usually say they don't know enough about them to know what they are worth, or there is no interest in them.

:(
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post #12 of 48 Old 01-05-2013, 11:37 AM Thread Starter
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Castings after cleaning

I have cleaned up both planes.

The Sargent 408 body looks like I just painted it but this is how it came out of the Evapo-Rust. I was pleasantly surprised. The blade either was either never sharpened or was sharpened correctly. The edge was dull and worn in the middle from wear and some pitting from the rust, but this was removed by re-sharpening.

The Stanley No 5 is another story. The casting is intact, no cracks or dings or pitting, but the jappaning looks very sad. I think this is a candidate for removing the jappaning back to clean metal and painting.

I am open to suggestions if the No 5 jappaning can somehow be saved.

If I need to remove the remains of the jappaning, does this need sand blasting or will normal paint removers work?

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post #13 of 48 Old 01-05-2013, 12:34 PM
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I don't think the japanning is that bad, but if you want to remove the japanning electrolysis will do it.
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post #14 of 48 Old 01-05-2013, 01:52 PM Thread Starter
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On closer inspection I noticed some bubbling in areas. I tried the old thumbnail to see if anything would come off, and sure enough the thumbnail was able to pop some areas.

I then tried a flat blade screwdriver and more areas flaked off.

After only a few minutes of scraping it turns out the area under the frog and the left side of the tote mount are stable. The rest came off too easy.

Either the jappaning at the factory was not good, or the environment over the decades made it decay. Likely the latter.

So it looks like I will be painting my first hand plane casting.
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post #15 of 48 Old 01-06-2013, 07:22 PM
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I accidentally bought a number 5 on ebay because of this thread. :P
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post #16 of 48 Old 01-06-2013, 07:40 PM Thread Starter
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I accidentally bought a number 5 on ebay because of this thread. :P
I hope you are happy with the plane. I also hope this is a tongue in cheek post.
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post #17 of 48 Old 01-06-2013, 07:49 PM
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I hope you are happy with the plane. I also hope this is a tongue in cheek post.
Most definitely! I've wanted one for awhile which this thread reminded me of, then looked at no less than 5 over the weekend and wasn't able to come to a point where I was comfortable with the price for the condition on any of them.

So I won this one, felt like it would be a good user with a bit of work. If not for shipping, the price would be perfect.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Stan...vip=true&rt=nc

Not to take away from your thread! It just inspired me to take on a much smaller project and order a set of sharpening stones. Thanks!
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post #18 of 48 Old 01-06-2013, 09:11 PM Thread Starter
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Most definitely! I've wanted one for awhile which this thread reminded me of, then looked at no less than 5 over the weekend and wasn't able to come to a point where I was comfortable with the price for the condition on any of them.

So I won this one, felt like it would be a good user with a bit of work. If not for shipping, the price would be perfect.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Stan...vip=true&rt=nc

Not to take away from your thread! It just inspired me to take on a much smaller project and order a set of sharpening stones. Thanks!
I think this will restore and be a good user plane.

I think the adjuster knob looks to be rubber. I read this happened about WWII due to brass and other metals being needed for the war effort.

You can leave this or replace, depending on how you want to use the plane.

I am happy if my thread inspired you to get your own vintage plane.

This is a good example of how we share our wood working interests.
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post #19 of 48 Old 01-07-2013, 12:06 AM
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I'm going to do a simple clean and go on that one, looking forward to using it.

This 20" Birmingham transitional though, I have no clue what I am going to do with.
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post #20 of 48 Old 01-09-2013, 04:43 PM
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I think the adjuster knob looks to be rubber. I read this happened about WWII due to brass and other metals being needed for the war effort.
Arrived today, I believe you to be absolutely correct.

Hows progress on the rust buckets?
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