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post #1 of 17 Old 05-20-2013, 12:12 PM Thread Starter
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Just my shout

So some people may get upset at what I have to say here but thats just the way it is.

This is a hobby no more no less and should be enjoyable at least thats the way I think of it.

Me I`ve earned my living at this all my life, but to me it`s also a hobby,

As a young boy I had to master the hand tools before I was allowed to use any machines and I mean any.

But this built in me the knowledge of how it should be done when no machines where a available,and in my life there where plenty of times when there where no machines available.

So as a hobby do you really need a mortice machine or a dove tail attachment,really how many of the joints are you going to cut out, in your hobby.


You will never get a better feeling than a hand saw that has been set and sharpened by you or a plane that has been fettled just by you or a chisel that has a edge on it,put on there by you that will parr away the toughest of end grains.

All the simplest of things but man you`ll never get the same feeling from a machine,thats just the way it is,like the old guys would say never let standing wood hold you.

It would be nice to know what other people think about these things
have a nice day enjoy your hobby. Billy.
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post #2 of 17 Old 05-20-2013, 01:06 PM
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I think you are preaching to the choir in this forum. Try posting that in the power tool forum if you are looking for a counter argument.
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post #3 of 17 Old 05-20-2013, 01:24 PM
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Some of it depends on time constraints for hobbies, too. I'm building a bench to be able to use hand tools more effectively, and it has been hard enough to make time for that, let alone if I was ripping the boards by hand instead of on my table saw.

One can't really do a hobby "wrongly"...
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post #4 of 17 Old 05-20-2013, 01:27 PM
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I disagree. I am also just a hobbiest, but have pretty limited time. Do I have the ability to cut a mortise by hand, sure, but is it a lot quicker to use my mortising machine? Sure is......and they will look the exact same once assembled. For me it's not the time it takes to do the project, it's getting to enjoy the finished item that's the most rewarding. Plus....,I love new power tools so its a win win when I get to buy one.

The tools don't make the craftsman....
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post #5 of 17 Old 05-20-2013, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy De View Post
So some people may get upset at what I have to say here but thats just the way it is.

This is a hobby no more no less and should be enjoyable at least thats the way I think of it.

Me I`ve earned my living at this all my life, but to me it`s also a hobby,

As a young boy I had to master the hand tools before I was allowed to use any machines and I mean any.

But this built in me the knowledge of how it should be done when no machines where a available,and in my life there where plenty of times when there where no machines available.

So as a hobby do you really need a mortice machine or a dove tail attachment,really how many of the joints are you going to cut out, in your hobby.


You will never get a better feeling than a hand saw that has been set and sharpened by you or a plane that has been fettled just by you or a chisel that has a edge on it,put on there by you that will parr away the toughest of end grains.

All the simplest of things but man you`ll never get the same feeling from a machine,thats just the way it is,like the old guys would say never let standing wood hold you.

It would be nice to know what other people think about these things
have a nice day enjoy your hobby. Billy.
Pretty lame, I have no idea what you are wanting out of this. It really is just a long sentence that says nothing. I guess is says you should not be on forums as they piss you off.
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post #6 of 17 Old 05-21-2013, 12:04 AM
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Billy, I understand what you are saying but to me it is about the quest-the challenge-how you get there is your own choice. I like to use a combo of tools-power and hand. Sure like the feel of a sharp chisel cutting wood though.

Last edited by mike1950; 05-21-2013 at 06:02 PM.
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post #7 of 17 Old 05-21-2013, 12:53 AM
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Well said Billy!

I have never sold a piece I have made and probably never will. I make things for my own use and for gifts.

I fully understand the reasons that others use more power tools than I do, - need to quickly perform tasks, time limitations in a busy world and others with physical limitations that prevent them from using (some) hand tools. I will never fault anyone for how they choose lead their life or work in their profession or hobby - as long as they give me the same consideration.

Those who have received gifts of my work have no idea of the steps taken to make the objects or even the time involved. They are just happy to have been given something that was made for them and admire the beauty of the final product. It doesn't matter to me if they don't understand the process or know about the tools I used.

It does however matter to ME how I make these projects, the tools and the processes I use. It is a personal choice and one I feel strongly about.

For me, the journey is as important as the destination.

"Good Behavior is the last refuge of mediocrity" -- Henry S. Haskins
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post #8 of 17 Old 05-21-2013, 12:57 AM
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To carry this discussion to logical absurdity, all tools are edges or wedges. Reduced to its simplest, the only tool you need for woodworking is a chisel and maybe a mallet. Each additional tool, plane, saw, etc. adds to efficiency and productivity. Add electric motors, and you further increase productivity. Add computer control (CNC) and man power is further reduced. Hobby? It's really what ever turns your crank.

I use hand tools because I want less noise and dust and frankly, I'm retired and not in any hurry.
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post #9 of 17 Old 05-21-2013, 01:03 AM
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Well we certainly have all types here. No one persons going to have all the answers. Hand tools or power tools both are right. I like to use both but probably not to the extent some do. I find the CNC router out of place in a wood shop. But some are pining for the day when they will be able to make a cutting board on one.

I like hand planes and cabinet scrapers but wouldn't use a profile hand plane to save my life. I like Japanese saws and now turn the blade around in my coping saw. But I'm going to walk over to the jointer before I pull my no7 out of the drawer. If I'm working on a small project I use more hand tools. If I've got to get a big project its done mostly with power.

I don't own a belt sander because I learned how to use a cabinet scraper. I would love to cut all my dove tails by hand but never do on drawers. Not important to me and few really understand how much work goes into hand cut. But I do on a carcass and will do anything to keep from using dowels and screws. Gave away the dowel guide to the same guy I gave my Craftsman belt sander too.

There's a little or a lot of wood snob in all of us. And we will all be better for knowing one another if we at least can be honest with ourselves about it. We all can one time or another say, "Oh that's just not done".

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post #10 of 17 Old 05-21-2013, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy De View Post
So as a hobby do you really need a mortice machine or a dove tail attachment,really how many of the joints are you going to cut out, in your hobby.
I personally agree with you -- working with tools that I cleaned up and sharpened is a great feeling! -- but I wanted to respond to this.

The thing with a hobby is that it's not meant to be productive. A lot of people LIKE big noisy machines. For them, getting to make loud noises is part of the enjoyment, as is making the jigs and such that are necessary for doing things with power tools. It's not about needing to make so many mortices or dovetails that you have to have a machine, it's about enjoying playing with the machine.

For you and me, we enjoy playing with the hand powered tools. For them, they like the electrically powered ones. Same thing, really... it's just a way to relax and have fun.
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post #11 of 17 Old 05-21-2013, 01:46 PM
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Take this "argeument" back a few thousand years, and you'd hear someone declare that useing metal tools or anything other than hand knapped instruments is a disgrace of some sort. I appreciate the opportunities to be versitile and to grow in an evolving world - to employ an electronic calculator or computer and yet be knowledgable in the use of sliderules, yet less proficient in the use of an abacus, etc. I can enjoy working with a hammer and anvil and files, but I can take pride working a lathe or mill without scuffing at those who prefer cnc equipment. Preserving the old arts is important as is learning to employ the new technologies. Ralph
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post #12 of 17 Old 05-21-2013, 04:20 PM Thread Starter
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Well some really interesting and thought provoking comments.When I started the thread I was thinking in a particular direction and sure enough not long after,another thread started here`s a link
http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/ca...-joiner-51868/.

The guy is asking a genuine question do I need all this machinery Well IMHO and it is just my humble opinion the answer is no.
If you have the money and want to buy all the power tools and machines, you just go ahead its your money do what you like with it.

Just to set the record straight Iām not a Luddite and I own most every power tool and wood working machine going,that's how I earn my coin.

My post was to point out to any one thinking of starting this as a hobby, all you need is a few basic tools and the will and determination to get a job done.Some times the simplest of things can give a world of pleasure,another link

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/hand-tools-51859/

Ok I`ll get of my soap box now.Billy
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post #13 of 17 Old 05-21-2013, 04:48 PM
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Really?

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Originally Posted by fire65 View Post
Pretty lame, I have no idea what you are wanting out of this. It really is just a long sentence that says nothing. I guess is says you should not be on forums as they piss you off.
you got nothing from this? and you recommend he not be on this forum?

He did not sound pissed off in the least to me, just revelling in the joy of having to learn the fundamentals of woodworking by the original of all processes...cutting wood with a sharp edge tool by hand.

Anyone can push a board through a table saw or crosscut a board with a circ saw and get a fairly straight cut. It take a fair amount of skill and practice to produce like results using a handsaw....just ask me how I know that.... 50 years of trials and attempts later. I have chiseled mortises by hand, used a router mortising jig and used a dedicated mortise machine all with varying levels of precision and success.

There is room on this forum for both ends of the spectrum and for all who fall in between in my opinion. My experience with the Baileigh Challenge was proof to me that I needed all of my woodworking powertool and handtool skills to accomplish my finished Art Deco chests.

Thanks for your "shout" on the subject, Billy.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specific. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo that illustrates your issue. (:< D)
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post #14 of 17 Old 05-21-2013, 05:14 PM
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I understand the joy of using good quality hand tools in good condition.

I love testing the hand planes I have restored. A piece of spruce or pine, so easy to plane, but generating the nice thin gossamer like shavings is very much a pleasure for me. Almost therapy.

Now if I had to take a rough cut 10in wide x 8ft long and hand plane the width to be flat end-to-end, I would quickly loose the feeling of pleasure. For me it would be hard work.

Hand planing the edge to be straight in preparation of ripping on the table saw is a pleasure.

I like to use my power tools where it makes sense and helps me to be eager to continue with the project.

If I need to rip a board, I am happy to use the table saw. Fast and accurate.

If I need to cut a small piece out of a long board, I am happy to mount in the vise and use a hand saw.

Restoring the hand planes reminds me of how much knowledge and skills may have been lost over time. I often wonder about the people who owned the planes, likely using them to earn a living. Gives me a new respect for the old craftsmen. Lugging the tools to and from work sites would have taken a lot of energy.

The one power tool I now own which can give me a similar pleasure to hand planing is my lathe. Some turning tasks have the same pleasure to generate the chips/shavings as a hand plane. Some days when my creative energy is lacking, I find a scrap just to turn round for the "therapy".

I do like to sharpen my plane blades and chisels by hand. I like the control and I know I am not going to overheat the steel.

I am happy to have both my hand tools and power tools.

I recently went to a turning demonstration which included carved decorations on the item. The demonstrator used hand tools at times and power carving at times. I can see getting both of these in the future.
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post #15 of 17 Old 05-21-2013, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billy De View Post

This is a hobby no more no less and should be enjoyable at least thats the way I think of it.

Me I`ve earned my living at this all my life, but to me it`s also a hobby,
I enjoy woodworking, but by no means is it a hobby for me. It's been my profession for over 40 years, on a daily basis. I guess if I didn't like it, I would have moved on to something else. When I started out I had no tools to speak of. I just got out of the Army and I might have had a pliers, screwdriver, and a hammer. I had to learn what hand tools to buy, and how to maintain them. Throughout the years, whatever I learned in the beginning was taught to those that became apprentices.

There is a big difference in a dull and a sharp tool. It's evident in the ease or difficulty involved with its use.







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post #16 of 17 Old 05-21-2013, 10:50 PM
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I love to look at the many woods being turned these days. I love the fact that others have taken the plunge to have a lathe and spend a life time learning on it. To me it's a major. Not really for the half hearted. Requires some art talent along with the skill. I knew I lacked the fortitude to dive in so I majored in other aspects of woodwork.

Thanks to those of you that did.

Al

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post #17 of 17 Old 05-21-2013, 11:10 PM
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If someone is just getting started. They probably are not thinking 100% about learning the craft. More than likely they have a project in mind that starts the ball rolling. That's the goal. And when it's finished and they get a feeling they might of done it differently or wish they would have known before they had made all those mistakes. Those not so great projects we learn from foster in us the desire to do better.

Its at times like these when skill and craft move up in the ranks. Maybe we blame the cheap tool and unruly wood? Maybe we see the fault is in our ability? No one really is fully honest in the beginning and know one really knows just how far they have to go.

Without a stern teacher or father behind you your bound to try to slide past the fundamentals.

Al

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