dining table plan - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum

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post #1 of 41 Old 01-01-2017, 04:03 PM Thread Starter
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dining table plan

Going to be making a simple farm-style dining table and bench for the wife. I have a friend I can borrow pocket hole jig from. I plan on pocket hole screwing the skirt to the pre-turned legs as well as tabletop slats together. Should I also use it for securing the top to the frame? I ask because I've seen that some people like using wood buttons and slit along the skirts for joinery for tables. They want it for wood movement. I'll be using kiln dried 2x6 for my top and probably 1 x 6 boards for the skirts. I will be planing and surface jointing the 2x6s so I don't expect much movement.

Any tips on which method for tabletop assembly?

Also to note: I will be building this somewhat modular in the garage then taking it inside for final assembly since I can't fit a big table where it's eventually going to go. I thought of those corner mounting brackets at first but then thought that pocket holes for the side skirts would be enough.
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post #2 of 41 Old 01-01-2017, 06:07 PM
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Originally Posted by mendozer View Post
Going to be making a simple farm-style dining table and bench for the wife. I have a friend I can borrow pocket hole jig from. I plan on pocket hole screwing the skirt to the pre-turned legs as well as tabletop slats together. Should I also use it for securing the top to the frame? I ask because I've seen that some people like using wood buttons and slit along the skirts for joinery for tables. They want it for wood movement. I'll be using kiln dried 2x6 for my top and probably 1 x 6 boards for the skirts. I will be planing and surface jointing the 2x6s so I don't expect much movement.

Any tips on which method for tabletop assembly?

Also to note: I will be building this somewhat modular in the garage then taking it inside for final assembly since I can't fit a big table where it's eventually going to go. I thought of those corner mounting brackets at first but then thought that pocket holes for the side skirts would be enough.
You need to read all those threads where they "thought" wood doesn't move.....it's alive....it breathes....it moves!!!! Many, many, many,many,many....did I mention MANY???? have ruined flat surfaces by improper anchoring (whichever method you chose, there's usually a way to make it work correctly if properly done). I'm not going into details....TOO much has been written and asked on the subject along with some disagreements (imagine that here!!! LOL!!!)

I hope those aren't a lumberyard/house wood/framing.....not dry enough!!! Different MC specs!!!!
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post #3 of 41 Old 01-01-2017, 08:45 PM Thread Starter
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I know it expands and stuff, so what are my options really?

I don't really want 2x6 from HD since it's S4S. I want rough cut since I'll plane and join them. what grade of 2x would you recommend?
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post #4 of 41 Old 01-01-2017, 08:46 PM Thread Starter
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post #5 of 41 Old 01-01-2017, 08:50 PM
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All you have to do is run a dado on the back side of the skirt and fasten it to the top with table top fasteners. http://www.rockler.com/table-top-fasteners

Then mount the legs to the skirt so the top is free to expand and contract.
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post #6 of 41 Old 01-01-2017, 08:52 PM Thread Starter
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I was looking at those for alternative to wood blocks. IDK why exactly but some prefer wood blocks. Maybe it allows for more movement? So the table top will expand lengthwise along the grain...?
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post #7 of 41 Old 01-01-2017, 09:00 PM
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So hardwood?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mendozer View Post
I know it expands and stuff, so what are my options really?

I don't really want 2x6 from HD since it's S4S. I want rough cut since I'll plane and join them. what grade of 2x would you recommend?
When you say 2 X 6 that immediately calls for dimensioned lumber, softwood, construction grade. It is not available "rough sawn"., but as you say S4S. So then we think hardwood, rough sawn or maybe some softwood species from a mill? Right? What species?
You got a source for this?

Now as far as wood movement there's a whole bunch of info on what to do regarding attaching a top to the skirt and breadboard ends IF you are going that way?


Next issue is joinery. What method ..... mortise and tenon, nut and bolt, pocket screws?

Next issue is design. Cross brace "X" type, vertical legs? You gotta have a plan before we can be much help and you gotta really understand wood movement, EMC, moisture content, "kiln dried" and acclimation to the environment to have a successful project.

Finally, you gotta have a bunch of clamps ready to go and a nice work surface IF you are gluing these planks together:
Door Build from 2 Xs and 1/4" ply

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-01-2017 at 09:13 PM.
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post #8 of 41 Old 01-01-2017, 09:04 PM
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A nice project. Make sure your lumber is kiln dried. Buy your 2" lumber S4S to save yourself a lot of time.
I'm not a big fan of Pine. Too soft. Not a good top with children. Best when you want a rustic look. I recommend making the top out of Alder.

If you don't have time to do it right the first time, when will you have time to do it over?
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post #9 of 41 Old 01-01-2017, 09:16 PM
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Nope.

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I was looking at those for alternative to wood blocks. IDK why exactly but some prefer wood blocks. Maybe it allows for more movement? So the table top will expand lengthwise along the grain...?

Like I said above you gotta understand wood movement. Is does not change length, along the grain. It expands and contracts across the grain or in width.

Another thing is where in the tree/log the plank is cut from will determine how the wood will warp as it dries. You can look at the end of the plank and see how the grain looks. Vertical grain is best for woodworking project and it's call quartersawn. Large arching grain circles are from flat sawing and that plank has a greater tendency to cup as it dries.


How you mate your planks matters also:
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The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo

Last edited by woodnthings; 01-01-2017 at 09:53 PM.
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post #10 of 41 Old 01-01-2017, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mendozer View Post
Going to be making a simple farm-style dining table and bench............. so I don't expect much movement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mendozer View Post
I know it expands and stuff, so what are my options really?.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by mendozer View Post
I was looking at those for alternative to wood blocks. IDK why exactly but some prefer wood blocks. Maybe it allows for more movement? So the table top will expand lengthwise along the grain...?
Any tips on which method for tabletop assembly?

.
I seen several posts here with advice....BUT you've posted 3 different statements which explains you need to understand moisture , movement and joinery....We only want to help you. PLEASE take the time to learn and understand. We have craftsmen here from all styles, some don't agree with each others style of joinery types BUT we all understand if we build with movement in mind our pieces survive....I can build from fresh sawn....BUT I know all the issues and things that would happen and what the final outcome would be...or not be....so I DON'T.

Take a little time and absorb this info....we didn't learn overnight and we don't want to see others make the mistakes we made....most of us learned the hard way from hardknocks and mistakes... without available info at hand easily as the web.
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post #11 of 41 Old 01-02-2017, 04:57 PM
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I think the moral of the stories I'm reading here lately is if you see a plan with the words "Farm House Table" and "Kreg" just move on, otherwise you are in for a world of hurt.

Study up on proper joinery and wood movement, then find a plan to build your table that is not going to lead to trouble.

“Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.”
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post #12 of 41 Old 01-02-2017, 07:54 PM
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I think the moral of the stories I'm reading here lately is if you see a plan with the words "Farm House Table" and "Kreg" just move on, otherwise you are in for a world of hurt.

Study up on proper joinery and wood movement, then find a plan to build your table that is not going to lead to trouble.
LOL !!!! I agree. It's sad how many think Kreg screw is a craft......YES it can be done correctly with Kregs IF proper knowledge of wood movement is understood.....BUT it is NOT a craftsman/woodworker skill. Kreg screws have their place and I use them myself at times for certian fits/places. MANY have actually used them more incorrectly and gave the screw a bad rap...along with bad name for craftsmen.

Have a Blessed and Prosperous day in Jesus's Awesome Love, Tim
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post #13 of 41 Old 01-03-2017, 01:17 AM Thread Starter
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woodnthings thanks for the photos, I'm a visual learner. I'll keep that in mind for orienting the planks for the top.

As for the comments on understanding joinery and throwing out the Kreg...mad respect to true craftsmen, truly. But I am not one of you. I enjoy building things, but I also understand that I'm too busy with too many projects to take a while to learn old school joinery to make a table that will last 85 years. If it lasts 10 years I'd be excited. If it fails after 5, I get to have fun building a table again. So I respect your comments, but I have to be honest and say I will not be dedicating myself (right now) to learn these things. If I had a friend to teach me, then maybe. But for now, I'm a quick and efficient DIY builder, not "craftsman"
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post #14 of 41 Old 01-03-2017, 12:26 PM
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You are free to build as you please, I only hope threads like this prevent others from unknowingly making mistakes and wasting costly material.

“Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.”
― Marcus Aurelius
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post #15 of 41 Old 01-03-2017, 12:43 PM
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Building a table using good joinery takes no longer than building a table with bad joinery.

Using pocket screws to hold legs onto a large heavy table will fail much sooner than you think. If you insist on attaching the legs with screws at the very least add in 45 degree braces at the corners lagged into the legs.
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post #16 of 41 Old 01-03-2017, 05:29 PM
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woodnthings, thanks for the sketches of the board layout. My wife reminded me while at our local Woodcraft store that I owe her a dining room table. Will probably pestering you folks with all kinds of questions.

My wife gives sound advice. 99% sound and 1% advice.
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post #17 of 41 Old 01-03-2017, 09:35 PM
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Building a table using good joinery takes no longer than building a table with bad joinery. .....
So true.
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post #18 of 41 Old 01-04-2017, 01:50 AM Thread Starter
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ok well keeping my design plans the same, am I better off using the corner brackets than pocket hole screws? I am certainly willing to learn if the pocket holes are really THAT bad of an idea.

http://www.rockler.com/surface-mount...r-table-aprons

I was also thinking of using a straight router bit to run grooves in the 3" wide leg tops for the aprons to slide into. This table will be 40"W x 64" L so not very large.
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post #19 of 41 Old 01-04-2017, 01:51 AM Thread Starter
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Or better yet, so as not to pester you too much, are there any recommended resources like websites or books I should look into?
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post #20 of 41 Old 01-04-2017, 11:31 AM
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I would use mortise and tenon joints for the legs and skirt boards, even with that I would add some sort of 45 brace. Someone here posted a simple, homemade, interlocking 45 brace that looked like it could be made easily on a table saw. Unfortunately I don't remember the thread. If you don't have the time or means to do mortise and tenon use the pocket screws and add in the 45 braces. You can also buy metal corner braces like thes https://www.amazon.com/Corner-Brace-...ble+leg+braces. The big box stores might have them.

As for constructing the top I will leave that for others to tackle. My opinion is the pocket screw method shown will work but your top is going to move considerably in a short time. How and how much is hard to say.

I don't think anyone here thinks you are pestering them. Ask your questions, pay attention to the answers and learn. I think most here only want to help.

Last edited by Kerrys; 01-04-2017 at 11:35 AM.
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