Water soluble aniline dyes - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum

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post #1 of 21 Old 12-22-2007, 07:20 AM Thread Starter
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Water soluble aniline dyes

Hi all. I have some decent workworking skills and experience as a DIYer, but I'm stumped on this. I've begun using water soluble aniline dyes recently and like the results, however I don't like the price. I've been using a well known brand costing about $9-$10 per oz. (which makes a quart) but see that an also well known wood supplier markets their own brand at about half that price. Does anyone have experience they can share about the quality of lower priced dyes compared to the well known brands?

Thanks in advance for any info.

Dennis
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post #2 of 21 Old 12-22-2007, 07:45 AM
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I don't have advice other than spend the $5 and see. Since you have already used the "name brand" and have a benchmark, you will know if the "store brand" works as well.

If not, you are out $5. If they suit you then you know you can save a couple bucks in the future.
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post #3 of 21 Old 12-22-2007, 12:12 PM
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Dennis, if you try it out please come back post a review of it here.
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post #4 of 21 Old 01-01-2008, 12:02 PM
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I've had some luck with RIT dyes. They are usually sold in grocery stores and are directed towards fabrics, but will also work with wood. They can be mixed to varying concentration levels, and are very inexpensive and easy to use. Here's a link for their colors.

I would guess that RIT would be less expensive than Trans Tint, or an equivalent.




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post #5 of 21 Old 01-03-2008, 09:32 AM Thread Starter
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Wink Thanks to All

Thanks for the responses. I've looked at the RIT color chart and am inclinded not to use it simply because of the mixing/mess. I think I'll just order the $5 brand and check the results. I'll definitely post the results along with the brand names I'm using.

Dennis
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post #6 of 21 Old 01-03-2008, 04:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgspal View Post
Thanks for the responses. I've looked at the RIT color chart and am inclinded not to use it simply because of the mixing/mess. I think I'll just order the $5 brand and check the results. I'll definitely post the results along with the brand names I'm using.

Dennis

Well, we sure don't want to get our hands dirty, now do we. Order these.







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post #7 of 21 Old 01-03-2008, 07:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
I've had some luck with RIT dyes. They are usually sold in grocery stores and are directed towards fabrics, but will also work with wood. They can be mixed to varying concentration levels, and are very inexpensive and easy to use. Here's a link for their colors.

Here's a link to a small wooden craft project at RIT... describes dying wood. Might be helpful...

http://www.ritdye.com/Picture+Perfect+Memories.57.lasso

Thanks:
JC

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post #8 of 21 Old 01-22-2008, 03:02 PM
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Rit Dye stain

Quote:
Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
I've had some luck with RIT dyes. They are usually sold in grocery stores and are directed towards fabrics, but will also work with wood. They can be mixed to varying concentration levels, and are very inexpensive and easy to use. Here's a link for their colors.

I would guess that RIT would be less expensive than Trans Tint, or an equivalent.




Has anybody ever tried Rit Dyes with mineral spirits or alcohol instead of water to POP the figured grain on tiger maple? if yes PLEASE tell me how it went, any recommendations, I know that Rit Dyes is soluble in HOT water. I could simply use Trans-Tint, but that's 16.00$ instead of 2.00 for Rit Dye!

But I'd like to dissolve brown colored Rit Dye in alcohol to later add a few drops to De-waxed shellac or Lacquer to POP the grain for a 3-D effect or chattoyance (pigment stains won't work, maple being so dense), sand it a bit, then lightly oil-stain the whole thing to give a warm tone, without hiding the tiger figure, then top coat with a oil based poly.

If Rit Dyes is only soluble in Hot water, then will it give the same 3-D effect? Will I need to add a pre-stain wood conditioner before adding the stain to prevent blotching. Or could I just add a few drops of water-dye mix in water based pre-stain wood conditioner? - I prefer oil based finish over water based.

Is Rit dye an Aniline Dye?

TELL me guys; are these good questions?

If this works, then there's a big price difference, between the two!

Any input, I'm stupped!

Pete.
please reply at peter.michaud@edmundston.ca
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post #9 of 21 Old 01-22-2008, 04:22 PM
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Here is a picture from my gallery. I was doing some experimenting with water based dies (simple kitchen food coloring) on tiger maple. I was making custom guitar pick guards at the time out of some thin stick. It worked good.


I am going to buy some black RIT ,maybe yet today and do some testing on tiger maple I have a custom Tsaku and Saya to make for a Katana (handle and scabbard for a Japanese sword).

I have done 2 tones like red/yellow. I am trying to make black yellow.??? Water based dyes do work on figured maple. Depends on what you are trying to do though I guess.
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post #10 of 21 Old 01-23-2008, 12:24 PM
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Has anybody ever tried Rit Dyes with mineral spirits or alcohol instead of water to POP the figured grain on tiger maple?
This is RIT and water. Seemed to show the figure ok. I needed a 2 tone coloring for what I am trying to do. I had a couple scraps to test it on. For me water is more forgiving on hard to stain woods like maple, that is why I have stuck with it over alcohol.

I mixed up the black, wiped it on and let it set for a couple minutes. Then with a very wet rag wiped it off. That is the first picture, after the thinned black had dried.

Then I mixed concentrated yellow, put it on and let it soak, did not wipe it off.

A member here Charles Neil has a good video (well several ) on finishing and making figure pop. http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=InTheWorkshop .

This was just an experiment to see which wood I am going to use for a project. I like the more quilted looking maple better that the tiger (it has alot more going on than the picture shows)
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post #11 of 21 Old 01-30-2008, 01:01 PM
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Exclamation

Pretty good results there Daren.

Last night I tried diluting Rit dye in lacquer thinner, and then mixed with lacquer (I want to Pop the grain on my tiger maple board)... Let's just say, I've seen better before. I tried dark brown dye, it did dilute somewhat but not all. The thinner went dark brown, but some stuff in the dye just stuck to the bottom. I stirred and shaked to no avail, I then thought; what if I heated the mix - but then realized - this is thinner! I added some lacquer in the mix, stirred it, and applied it on figured maple. Your results with water is way better, so tonight I will try that.

But, Darren, with what top coat would you use after water dying these figured blanks: Poly (oil based), shellac, oil, wax or Lacquer?

And did you apply a water based pre-stain wood conditioner before dying to get these results?


The reason I didn't use water in the 1st place is blotching and grain raising. After viewing Marc Spagnuolo's (TheWoodWhisperer.com) vid on You tube, I'm going to try that route and buy some Transtint, mix it with lacquer or de-waxed shellac. Copy and paste this link to watch his technique. Pop goes the Maple - episode 32:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yx8mp3Ag36s

Anyone has other result with Rit dye, let me know.

OH, I did contact - E-mailed Ritdie, last week, for info. But they never replied.

Pete.
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post #12 of 21 Old 01-30-2008, 01:10 PM
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Originally Posted by mpm1696 View Post

But, Darren, with what top coat would you use after water dying these figured blanks: Poly (oil based), shellac, oil, wax or Lacquer?

Whatever floats your boat. Once it is dry again, it's dry. I can't see any difference in the finishing approach, I have used all of the above mentioned. I could be corrected, but it would take a pretty strong case to convince me.
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post #13 of 21 Old 01-30-2008, 01:43 PM
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Did you apply a water based pre-stain wood conditioner before dying to get these results?
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post #14 of 21 Old 01-30-2008, 02:04 PM
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Did you apply a water based pre-stain wood conditioner before dying to get these results?
No I did not.
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post #15 of 21 Old 02-17-2012, 07:48 PM
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Powdered Aniline Dyes

I realize that this is an old forum - just wondering - have any of you tried pysanky aniline dyes? They run about a dollar a packet and that yields about a 1 1/4 cup of dye. Also, you can buy aniline dyes pretty cheaply Dharma Trading dot com. My thought is that aniline dye is, well, aniline dye. Some powders call for vinegar to be added, others call for soda ash to be added. For more saturated colors, once the dye is mixed, you can add citric acid acid powder which is cheap. Just a thought. Again, I use these powered dyes for pysanky eggs. Any thoughts?
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post #16 of 21 Old 02-17-2012, 08:06 PM
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I realize that this is an old forum - just wondering - have any of you tried pysanky aniline dyes? They run about a dollar a packet and that yields about a 1 1/4 cup of dye. Also, you can buy aniline dyes pretty cheaply Dharma Trading dot com. My thought is that aniline dye is, well, aniline dye. Some powders call for vinegar to be added, others call for soda ash to be added. For more saturated colors, once the dye is mixed, you can add citric acid acid powder which is cheap. Just a thought. Again, I use these powered dyes for pysanky eggs. Any thoughts?
That's interesting SCM, just so you know though "analine"dyes have been banned for decades, the nomenclature has stuck simply because it was commonly used, like Kleenex, for example. The others here are not aware of this either i'm sure. Analine is carcenogenic, that is why it is no longer used.

As to your dyes i would like to know more since i'm writing a book on dyes and pigments in the wood finishing industry. sounds like they may be coal tar dyes but i would like to know for sure, please post a link if you would be so kind ok?

sincerely, chemmy
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post #17 of 21 Old 02-17-2012, 08:21 PM
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That's interesting SCM, just so you know though "analine"dyes have been banned for decades, the nomenclature has stuck simply because it was commonly used, like Kleenex, for example. The others here are not aware of this either i'm sure. Analine is carcenogenic, that is why it is no longer used.
That's just not true. It's still being produced, and still called aniline.

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As to your dyes i would like to know more since i'm writing a book on dyes and pigments in the wood finishing industry. sounds like they may be coal tar dyes but i would like to know for sure, please post a link if you would be so kind ok?

sincerely, chemmy
I'm covering the subject in my book. When I get that chapter in draft form, I'll get it to you. Remember though...if you quote me, quote me correctly.






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post #18 of 21 Old 02-18-2012, 02:19 AM
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That's just not true. It's still being produced, and still called aniline.



I'm covering the subject in my book. When I get that chapter in draft form, I'll get it to you. Remember though...if you quote me, quote me correctly.








.
WOW!!! My mistake C'man, I'm aghast!! lost for words, well not quite lol. No you keep your writings ok, but thanks for the offer, mighty nice of you. But i am interested - very interested in where i can purchase the true analine dyes at or from, do you have that info please, pretty please. Pretty please with aqeous poly on top????

I would like to get the three main colors - aniline oil for blue [pure aniline], aniline oil for red, and aniline oil for yellow [safrinine] ok? oh and they must be here in the usa not overseas or china or india etc.. ok?

Last edited by chemmy; 02-18-2012 at 02:27 AM.
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post #19 of 21 Old 02-29-2012, 11:07 PM
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Aniline Dye, Wool Dye, Color & KOOL-AID!

I am having trouble posting replies. Here goes - here is a link to some info about pysanky dyes: http://web.me.com/lubap/Chemical_Dyes/Aniline.html And this one: http://web.mac.com/lubap/Chemical_Dyes/Suppliers.html

Like another poster said - they didn't want anything from China or India. Атей-плюсĽ (Lviv, Ukraine(which is a Ukranian company) gets all their dyes from those two places, but honestly, where else in the world has the resources to get the actual pigment rock that makes them (i am on a no China binge)?

Egg shells are made of calcium carbonate - wood of course is fiberous - but if the wood is smoothly sanded and the wood conditioned - it may just work. now I am going to have to try these dyes on some wood!!

Has anyone ever thought about natural dyes? Purple onion skins boiled in water produces a beautiful color! Cheap too! The intensity all depends on the amount of skins to water and how long you let it boil out. Boiled tree bark from a sassafrass tree gives a beautiful honey golden yellow - but if cooked too long - turns black. Boiled beets is another suggestion - just boil the whole can and strain. Vinegar intensifies all of these colors, and makes them 'disinfected'.

On one of the links it talks about using wool and fabric dyes also. I haven't tried these on pysanky eggs.

One last suggestion - and this may be a long shot (but now that I think of it - I am definitely going to try it) - what about using KOOL-AID mixes - but instead of water - use vinegar? Hmmm - my mind is racing now.....I'd post some pics - but I'm sure you guys don't want to see my pysanky!!
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post #20 of 21 Old 03-01-2012, 12:38 AM
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I am having trouble posting replies. Here goes - here is a link to some info about pysanky dyes: http://web.me.com/lubap/Chemical_Dyes/Aniline.html And this one: http://web.mac.com/lubap/Chemical_Dyes/Suppliers.html

Like another poster said - they didn't want anything from China or India. Атей-плюсĽ (Lviv, Ukraine(which is a Ukranian company) gets all their dyes from those two places, but honestly, where else in the world has the resources to get the actual pigment rock that makes them (i am on a no China binge)?

Egg shells are made of calcium carbonate - wood of course is fiberous - but if the wood is smoothly sanded and the wood conditioned - it may just work. now I am going to have to try these dyes on some wood!!

Has anyone ever thought about natural dyes? Purple onion skins boiled in water produces a beautiful color! Cheap too! The intensity all depends on the amount of skins to water and how long you let it boil out. Boiled tree bark from a sassafrass tree gives a beautiful honey golden yellow - but if cooked too long - turns black. Boiled beets is another suggestion - just boil the whole can and strain. Vinegar intensifies all of these colors, and makes them 'disinfected'.

On one of the links it talks about using wool and fabric dyes also. I haven't tried these on pysanky eggs.

One last suggestion - and this may be a long shot (but now that I think of it - I am definitely going to try it) - what about using KOOL-AID mixes - but instead of water - use vinegar? Hmmm - my mind is racing now.....I'd post some pics - but I'm sure you guys don't want to see my pysanky!!
i have a few books on natural dyes, unfortunately most of them have poor fade resistance, although they make look fine for awhile, the older ones always need a chemical mordant to really attach well to the wood and bring out the final color, things like logwood extract and brazil wood extract are two that have very good permanancy, fustic makes a good fade resistant one also. ther are literrally dozens maybe hundreds that have been used over the cebturies for dyeing, but with wood it's a matter of permanancy. Your best dyeing materials for wood today are still the azo dyes and metal complex dyes, everything else falls short. If and when you tire of your alchemy, lol, you may want to give them a try ok? and again, analine dyes are no longer sold or as far as i know made, analine is used extensively as an intermedite in the dye making process as an intermediate to produce nitrobenzine and other dye making materials, so in that sense it is readily available.What people buy that is called analine dyes is a hangover of when they were first produced by Perkins.

Last edited by chemmy; 03-01-2012 at 12:40 AM.
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