Stain removal from oak - Woodworking Talk

RichO · 10-30-2009, 09:30 PM

I have a nightmare on my hands. I built some kitchen cabinets for my girlfriend's parents to match their existing cabinets. I had a reputable paint store mix a stain to match. The sample they showed me at the store looked like a good match so I went ahead and began applying the stain.

After it dried it was way too yellow and stuck out like a sore thumb next to the original color. I brought the door and original sample back to the paint store and they mixed up something to apply over the top to change the color. Well, although it reduced the yellow somewhat, it turns out that didn't work very well and after going through with the topcoat and bringing them over to their house, the new cabinets do not match the existing ones, not even close IMO.

Is there anything I can do to get it all back to the bare oak? Will a good chemical stripper remove the color from the deep grain of the oak?

Right now I am sick over all the work I put into these cabinets just to see that they are not even close to my standards.

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Gene Howe · 10-31-2009, 09:41 AM

Water based or oil based stain?

phinds · 10-31-2009, 10:49 AM

If it's red oak, you're probably out of luck, esp if it was a water based stain. If white oak and oil based, there might be a possibility, but jeez are you in for a tough job.

jerry · 10-31-2009, 11:55 AM

A good paint stripper with MC and if necessary(min-wax stain) some chlorine beach for the dye componenet,

Regards
Jerry

cabinetman · 10-31-2009, 01:06 PM

You're going to have a tough time to remove all the color, but you can get most all of it out. A chemical stripper like jerry suggested would be the best to use. An MC based stripper (methylene chloride), is a toxic nasty stripper, but it does work. I would suggest one called "Aircraft Stripper" in the blue can. On the face of the can it shows an airplane with clouds above. You will likely have to do more than one application. Use gauntlet style chemically resistant gloves, a wing ding of a respirator (with cartridges), body and arm protection, and eye protection. Try to strip outside, and if indoors is necessary make sure you have good ventilation. Follow instructions for how to use, and protect the floor for when cleaning/scraping off the globs of finish and stain.

Once you have stripped whatever you can (and it may take a few to 3 times), you could try a heavy wipe down with lacquer thinner or acetone (would be better - but dries fast). If there is still remnants of color, use Oxalic acid (a bleach for wood) on what's left. So, whatever doesn't get stripped off, will get bleached.

RichO · 10-31-2009, 01:43 PM

It is an oil based stain with a lacquer topcoat. The stain was made with Campbell's Woodsong II stain base.

Being that there are 4 raised panel doors, I might be better off just rebuilding the doors from scratch. Yeah, about $60-80 in materials but might save a lot of work in the long run.

But the cabinet face frames are different story since they are glued to the cabinets. I don't want to try to hammer them off and end up destroying the carcases.

I hear that wood bleach kills all of the natural color of the wood as well. Is this true?

I am staining and topcoating a sample piece to see how much work it is to take off and I guess I'll go from there.

Thanks

Gene Howe · 10-31-2009, 02:27 PM

Follow Cabinetman's advice. Aircraft stripper and oxalic acid will do the job. And, yes the bleach will remove most of the natural color. But you'll have a blank canvas on which to apply other stains to get to your desired color tone. It's an art and, like most art, it takes time and experimentation. Don't give up on it. I learn more in repairing my mistakes than in making them.
Gene

Tony B · 10-31-2009, 03:42 PM

I use the stuff regularly. take precautions as others have already suggested.
Here is one more piece of safety advise, keep a garden hose handy. If you use the 'good' stuff any contact with skin will burn like hell. It is quickly neutralized with water. If you get any on your skin, dont wait for it to burn to see if you need to wash it off. Trust me, it will! Just give it about 5 to 10 seconds and you will feel it. Just rinse off and all will be better.
Also, MC works best when the chemical is used at about 90 degrees F. It will usually boil if the chemical gets much over 100. Keep in mind that the chemical temp is usually about 20 degrees cooler than the ambient air temp. I keep mine in a 5 gal. metal paint can and have a belt heater with a thermostat. Maybe you can figure a way of directing heat to it and keep an eye on it.
If the chemical gets down to about 60 degrees, you can swim in it without getting burnt.
Anyway, the MC should do the trick and remove most of the stain quickly. If further help is needed, rinse off with TSP (Tri Sodium Phosphate) and Oxylic Acid. Sometimes you can get TSP in a drug store.
Since you are not set up for stripping, you can get the MC in a paste form. The liquid is not really good for hand stripping. It will work better on vertical surfaces and is designed for hand stripping.
Try www.woodfinishersdepot.com. I buy 80% of my chemicals through them. I seriously doubt that you can buy the industrial strength MC locally.

Tony B · 10-31-2009, 03:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichO

...... I built some kitchen cabinets for my girlfriend's parents to match their existing cabinets. I had a reputable paint store mix a stain to match. The sample they showed me at the store looked like a good match so I went ahead and began applying the stain. ....

You failed to mention whether the paint store matched the stain on a chip or on one of the doors in question. Stains look entirely different on different woods. So, if you didnt bring them a fully prepared door (stripped, sanded, etc.), do it the next time. Just test the color on the inside portion of the door. Also, do a large section. Small patches dont always look the same when on a larger surface.

RichO · 11-01-2009, 03:43 AM

Quote:

You failed to mention whether the paint store matched the stain on a chip or on one of the doors in question.

I brought one of the original doors to the paint shop along with a 6 X 6 piece of solid oak cut from the boards I was using and sanded to the same final grit I would be using.

In the light of the paint shop the sample board looked good but in the bright fluorescent light of my workshop (of course after applying to all doors and allowing to dry) I checked the sample board comparing it to the original door in the bright light and it was much different looking than in the paint shop.

Thanks for all the tips. Looks like I have a big job on my hands but I will feel much better once it's looking like it should.

Tony B · 11-01-2009, 05:33 AM

Fluorescent lights give off a blueish color and incandescent lights throw out a yellowish color. When trying to match colors under different lights, you will get different results, as you just found out. So, what appears to be a match, isn't.
The best, and as far as I am concerned, the only way to get a true match is in ordinary daylight. So, next time you go for a color match, take the pieces outside and look again. If they match in daylight/sunlight, they will match under any lighting conditions.
Hope this helps.

cabinetman · 11-01-2009, 06:12 AM

I agree that different light sources will make a sample look different. But I'm thinking the same light source for two samples is a fair test. I can't always use sunlight for a test, because due to the rotation of the earth I experience darkness while working at night.

Tony B · 11-01-2009, 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabinetman

........ But I'm thinking the same light source for two samples is a fair test. It sounds like it ought to be but it's not, for reasons unbeknownst to me. You like that word huh?........I can't always use sunlight for a test, because due to the rotation of the earth I experience darkness while working at night. The earth rotates? When did that happen? And what prevents the oceans from running over the edge?

I thought I didnt know much about light and now you tell me the earth is like a flying pizza, sheesch!!!