Sanding Red Oak - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum

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post #1 of 34 Old 04-10-2012, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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Sanding Red Oak

I am working on red oak cabinate and would like to hear suggestions on how to sand it.

Many thanks!
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post #2 of 34 Old 04-10-2012, 06:50 PM
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I guess I've got nothing but questions.

Is the cabinet solid wood or plywood?
If solid wood is the wood flat and level or is it glue ups?
Are you going to stain it light or dark?
What equipment to you have to sand with?
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post #3 of 34 Old 04-10-2012, 07:21 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
I guess I've got nothing but questions.

Is the cabinet solid wood or plywood?
If solid wood is the wood flat and level or is it glue ups?
Are you going to stain it light or dark?
What equipment to you have to sand with?
Thanks for questions.
they are solid wood.
they are already flat.
will stain it light.
and i have Random Orbit Sander.
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post #4 of 34 Old 04-11-2012, 01:32 AM
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If you want the wood to look really nice and since it is solid wood I would start with sanding it with 80 grit sandpaper on your orbital sander. Then wipe it with a damp cloth to raise the grain and let dry. Then sand it again with 120 grit paper and wet again. Then sand it a final time with 180 grit paper. Of course with an orbital sander you would need to sand the inside corners of the cabinet by hand. If you are going to stain it and finish it with a chemical coating you are good to go at this point. If you are going to use an oil finish I would continue to go in steps until you sand it with 400 grit paper. Also on oak don't use a wood conditioner. If you are looking for quick and easy, omit wetting the wood and go from 80 grit paper to 120 grit paper and stain and finish it.

If you were trying to finish it dark you wouldn't sand it as fine. The finer you sand it the harder it is to stain it dark. You would have to use a dye on it to get it dark.

The reason I asked about plywood is the veneer on today's plywood is so thin you would probably sand through it with 80 grit paper and should start with a finer grit paper.
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post #5 of 34 Old 04-11-2012, 06:49 PM Thread Starter
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Steve

Thanks for the detail reply!
Following is my finishing plan

1) Stain with TransTint Dark Vintage Maple diluted at 1 oz dye to 2 qt. water
2) Apply one coat General Finishes SealACell Sealer. Let dry one day and scuff sand with 320 grit
3) Apply Bartley Walnut Gel Stain. Wipe clean and let dry overnight.
4) Apply 2 coats General Finishes ArmRSeal Satin Finish.

Any suggestions
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post #6 of 34 Old 04-11-2012, 09:16 PM
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i sand with the ros starting at 120. starting at 80 tends to leave swirlies.
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post #7 of 34 Old 04-11-2012, 11:18 PM
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Originally Posted by zlzhao View Post
Steve

Thanks for the detail reply!
Following is my finishing plan

1) Stain with TransTint Dark Vintage Maple diluted at 1 oz dye to 2 qt. water
2) Apply one coat General Finishes SealACell Sealer. Let dry one day and scuff sand with 320 grit
3) Apply Bartley Walnut Gel Stain. Wipe clean and let dry overnight.
4) Apply 2 coats General Finishes ArmRSeal Satin Finish.

Any suggestions
I don't use the products you have listed so I looked up what they were and your finish schedule sounds reasonable. I would also sand lightly between the two coats of ArmRSeal Satin. When you are done if the finish is not smooth enough to your liking there is no reason you can't sand and put a third coat on.
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post #8 of 34 Old 04-12-2012, 03:04 AM
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Some "iffy" statements about this being made here, suggestions that may not be as correct for the actual job as would be needed, no ones wrong per se', anything can work, but you should really post pics of the cabinet so everyone has a clear visual conception of what the cabinet is and it's construction or obstacles that may need to be handled in a different way.

There may be no changes to info offered so far or maybe much more, since there is more to go buy ok?

Right now for instance as i read, there is no mention of what type or style of doors and drawers the cabinet has -[raised panel, shaker, flat modern, etc,] this alone could change ones mind about the preferences of sanding methods to be used, since a ROS is not capable in and of itself of sanding any profiles, only flat surfaces that are unobstructed.

again, i don't read if this is a new cabinet or something that is being re-finished, if new, and purchased raw wood, from a manufacturer, it is most likely already sanded to around 120- 150 grit or possibly finer. If refinishing, the same would also hold true for the most part. Much time can be saved and useless time prevented being spent sanding with courser grits when it's already at a more finely sanded state to begin with, unless for example there is new damages to remove. and even then since it's not like its a customers but yours, spending a little more time with finer grits and avoiding having to sand out coarser sanding marks with heavier grits, will save time and money, in the long run.

As Steve mentioned already, an ROS won't get into corners, you may find it more to your advantage to buy a quarter pad square sander to do those operations, which only run 50 bucks or so, or optionally, if possible, remove the back[s] so you don't have obstructed areas the ROS can't sand.

Either way photos will enlighten us more on what any concerns not being taken into consideration might still be or procedures to make it less difficult to obtain good final results.

To many times I and others start giving out blind info without seeing or asking to see pics to get a solid idea of what really needs to be done, most of the time were pretty good about it, but sometimes, when not asking for pics, the info assumes things not known for sure, and has one doing more work than necessary in the long run.

Last edited by chemmy; 04-12-2012 at 06:03 AM.
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post #9 of 34 Old 04-12-2012, 11:25 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for long posting. Actually I am building this http://plansnow.com/corcabnt.html using red oak. I should tell this in my first posting.
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post #10 of 34 Old 04-12-2012, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by zlzhao View Post
Thanks for long posting. Actually I am building this http://plansnow.com/corcabnt.html using red oak. I should tell this in my first posting.
Ok, so when you say its all flat work i can see why. So your making all the doors and everything else from scratch is that correct, nothing is pre-assembled? nothing routered. your doing it all?

If so, then all we need to know is how flat and smooth it is from where you purchased your wood from - example: did they sand it to a final grit of 120/150/220/etc. From that it is easily deduced unless there is handling damage, what really needs to be done at this point maybe as little as one grit of paper.depending on how good your cabinet making and assembly skills are. This is assuming that you bought it the thickness and sizes you need to begin with.

Get back with what you find out ok?

Last edited by chemmy; 04-12-2012 at 12:09 PM.
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post #11 of 34 Old 04-12-2012, 12:18 PM Thread Starter
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OK, I am making it all by myself using 4/4 red oak lumber 4ds. I will sand it before assemble it.
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post #12 of 34 Old 04-12-2012, 12:24 PM
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Originally Posted by zlzhao View Post
OK, I am making it all by myself using 4/4 red oak lumber 4ds. I will sand it before assemble it.
Ok, does that include the door parts also? normally doors are not sanded till after glueing and assembly, though it's good to sand the panels before installing ok? the rest should be fine outside of moldings which will require hand sanding. I also am wondering about the back? Is that 4/4? lol, i'm sure you must have either bought 1/4 " or something thinner correct?

Again on the doors, it is best to stain/dye the panels and at least a coat of clear before actually glueing up the doors, this way any fluctuations in movement [contraction or expansion] will not show unstained or barewood.

also is this your first big project?

Last edited by chemmy; 04-12-2012 at 12:35 PM.
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post #13 of 34 Old 04-12-2012, 12:30 PM
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Quote:
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OK, I am making it all by myself using 4/4 red oak lumber 4ds. I will sand it before assemble it.
When you say "4ds" are you meaning S4S? Are you planning to use plywood for cabinet components like the ends, floor, top, and shelves, and solid wood for door frames and face frames?






.
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post #14 of 34 Old 04-12-2012, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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typo, it is D4S, for everything but back pannel
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post #15 of 34 Old 04-12-2012, 02:18 PM
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typo, it is D4S, for everything but back pannel

What is D4S?





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post #16 of 34 Old 04-12-2012, 02:23 PM
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What is D4S?










.
Dimensioned 4 sides
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post #17 of 34 Old 04-12-2012, 04:46 PM
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D4S is the same terminology as S4S, but not in the USA. But...what is 4/4...door frames, et.al.? Is the whole cabinet to made with 4/4 (1 inch) thick lumber except for the back? And, who is doing the milling?

I wouldn't advise doing that as it's asking for E&C problems. Red Oak plywood would be a better more stable panel than solid wood.





.
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post #18 of 34 Old 04-12-2012, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
D4S is the same terminology as S4S, but not in the USA. But...what is 4/4...door frames, et.al.? Is the whole cabinet to made with 4/4 (1 inch) thick lumber except for the back? And, who is doing the milling?

I wouldn't advise doing that as it's asking for E&C problems. Red Oak plywood would be a better more stable panel than solid wood.









.
From what i read, it's all 4/4 except back. I think hes had it milled already before buying.

I'm sure he will be back to say. Or........... maybe not.

If you had previously known D4S was the same as S4S then why ask the question to begin with?

Seems strange does it not? Doing some quick googleing are we?

The fact is that designation is used not only else where but right here.

Last edited by chemmy; 04-13-2012 at 07:56 AM.
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post #19 of 34 Old 04-12-2012, 07:18 PM
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>>>> today's plywood is so thin you would probably sand through it with 80 grit paper and should start with a finer grit paper.

Correct. The top and bottom veneers are very thin. The plywood manufacturer sands plywood to about 180 grit. There is no need to sand with anything more coarse. In fact the best process to follow is to only lightly hand sand with 180 grit mounted on a felt or rubber covered sanding pad. Sand in the direction of the grain. Then get the first two coats of finish on the surface, let them dry 48 hours and then hand sand the surface with 320 grit paper. This way you are sanding the finish, not the veneer and will have greatly reduced the risk of a sand through.

Howie..........
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post #20 of 34 Old 04-13-2012, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by cabinetman View Post
D4S is the same terminology as S4S, but not in the USA. But...what is 4/4...door frames, et.al.? Is the whole cabinet to made with 4/4 (1 inch) thick lumber except for the back? And, who is doing the milling?

I wouldn't advise doing that as it's asking for E&C problems. Red Oak plywood would be a better more stable panel than solid wood.





.
the lumber company M.L.Condon Co. in New York use D4S, "Oak -red D4S Stock" in their catalog
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