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post #1 of 23 Old 09-03-2010, 01:18 PM Thread Starter
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Best HVLP spray system

I'm looking for a good quality (yet low priced) hvlp sprayer. I'd like to get something around $100 or less.

The main application I am looking for is spraying lacquer, but I'd also like to use it to spray wood finishes.

I have seen 2 at Harbor Freight that look decent, although one is about $40 more.

http://www.harborfreight.com/hvlp-tu...rce=googlebase

http://www.harborfreight.com/high-vo...kit-44677.html

Is it worth the extra $40 for the more expensive one? (it does have a 1 yr warranty instead of a 30 day) Also, It specifically mentions spraying lacquer as one of the applications.


I have seen some spray systems at lowes, but they arent any cheaper than the one on HF which seemed to have decent reviews.

Any other systems that you know of that you would like to comment on?

Luke
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post #2 of 23 Old 09-03-2010, 06:05 PM
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They also sell HVLP guns for use with an air compressor if cost is a concern. I have both the spray guns from HF. I have used the more expensive of the two to spray polyurethane on cabinet jobs. It comes with a regulator & the cheaper gun is by itself. It sprays pretty decent for the money. I think it sprays better then the Huskey you get at Home Depot. I have not used the cheaper gun yet as I just bought it on sale last weekend for $9.99. A painter friend at work said that the cheaper gun is cheaper in quality but they look the same. The adjustment knobs are a little different looking though. I have not tried their turbine guns that they sell though.

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Last edited by jlord; 09-03-2010 at 06:08 PM.
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post #3 of 23 Old 09-03-2010, 06:15 PM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jlord View Post
They also sell HVLP guns for use with an air compressor if cost is a concern. I have both the spray guns from HF. I have used the more expensive of the two to spray polyurethane on cabinet jobs. It comes with a regulator & the cheaper gun is by itself. It sprays pretty decent for the money. I think it sprays better then the Huskey you get at Home Depot. I have not used the cheaper gun yet as I just bought it on sale last weekend for $9.99. A painter friend at work said that the cheaper gun is cheaper in quality but they look the same. The adjustment knobs are a little different looking though. I have not tried their turbine guns that they sell though.
I considered the HVLP guns that you use with an air compressor, but I don't have an air compressor, and (considering that I would only be using it for spraying) I thought that I would save money and go with the HVLP spray systems.

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They also sell HVLP guns for use with an air compressor if cost is a concern. I have both the spray guns from HF.
So you have the spray guns, not the systems?

Do you think that the guns that you use with an air compressor work better?
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post #4 of 23 Old 09-03-2010, 08:51 PM
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Hi CT woodworker Just few questions, first of all are you a woodworker and if so do you use any air tools. Another question would be exactly what you're going to spray, by that I mean are you spraying lacquer or polyurethane and enamel. Okay now just a few suggestions if you're just an occasional woodworker and you're going to be spraying polyurethane or enamel then my suggestion would be buy a compressor and a regular spray gun. Your HVLP systems start in price at around $1000 and go up from there. Now here in woodworking for the moneyand you build furniture or cabinets then by all means by the HVLP system. However if you are the occasional woodworker than as mentioned earlier I would simply buy a compressor and spray gun, by the way the compressor will come in handy later if you decide to buy any air nailers also a compressor comes in handy to spray dust off etc. anyway I hope this has helped, feel free to comment on any of my suggestions, and happy woodworking.
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post #5 of 23 Old 09-03-2010, 09:10 PM
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Hi again, sorry about the confusion for some reason I didn't see the very top of this thread so my previous reply you can just throw it out the window. I myself shop at Harbor freight a lot and also I do a lot of spraying with lacquer and other finishes i.e. polyurethane, enamel. I would suggest getting 2 of the cheaper spray guns, and I'm not talking about the HVLP guns either. I have one gun I keep lacquer in and all the time, lacquer will keep in the spray gun for extended periods of time, in fact months at a time. Now on the other hand polyurethane, enamel and other finishes require you to clean the gun very well after each use. I have not used the HVLP guns, I have only experienced the HVLP systems, however not the ones that they sell at Harbor freight. The system I have used is Fuji, and it works great but it costs $1000. But listen if woodworking is a hobby you will do just fine with the typical air compressor and a regular spray gun. Just keep an eye out for when Harbor freight has a sale on the heavy-duty spray guns and it will work just fine. Just a note it is always a good idea to have some type of moisture separator in your system. Keep us posted let us know what you decide.

Last edited by woodjoiner; 09-03-2010 at 09:17 PM. Reason: proofreading
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post #6 of 23 Old 09-03-2010, 10:19 PM Thread Starter
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Hi again, sorry about the confusion for some reason I didn't see the very top of this thread so my previous reply you can just throw it out the window. I myself shop at Harbor freight a lot and also I do a lot of spraying with lacquer and other finishes i.e. polyurethane, enamel. I would suggest getting 2 of the cheaper spray guns, and I'm not talking about the HVLP guns either. I have one gun I keep lacquer in and all the time, lacquer will keep in the spray gun for extended periods of time, in fact months at a time. Now on the other hand polyurethane, enamel and other finishes require you to clean the gun very well after each use. I have not used the HVLP guns, I have only experienced the HVLP systems, however not the ones that they sell at Harbor freight. The system I have used is Fuji, and it works great but it costs $1000. But listen if woodworking is a hobby you will do just fine with the typical air compressor and a regular spray gun. Just keep an eye out for when Harbor freight has a sale on the heavy-duty spray guns and it will work just fine. Just a note it is always a good idea to have some type of moisture separator in your system. Keep us posted let us know what you decide.
Thanks for the suggestions.
I am a woodworker, and although it is a hobby, I am looking for the hvlp spray guns for production. I have a woodmaster molder planer, and I am making mouldings on it. I have always loved picture frame moulding, so I have bought knives and am making it. I sell this moulding (and other kinds) so I need a nice finish that is quick, easy, and affordable. I don't know how much I'll be able to make off of this, so I don't want to invest much more than I already have.

I have noticed the need for spraying on finishes once I started experimenting with finishing the moulding.

While an air compressor would be nice to have, at this point, I do not think that I would have many other uses for it. I thought of these smaller hvlp spray systems as something a little more portable and convenient (and cheaper). The cheaper one is on sale for $80 and the more expensive one costs $112. I don't think that it is as good as the $1000 machine you mentioned -- I'm sure that it will be much slower, and probably more cumbersome to use. But, for just starting out, I figured that I should start small.


What is the difference in ease of use/quality of spraying between the guns you use with an air compressor and the hvlp systems?
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post #7 of 23 Old 09-04-2010, 03:17 AM
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Hi again CTwoodworker
considering your circumstances, then yes one of these may be your best option. Do you have one of their outlet stores near you that you can visit? If so then go start with the cheaper model, when you get ready to spray some things. And if the cheaper one doesn't seem to doing what you like, then you have 30 days to return it with no questions asked. At which point you can move up to the more expensive one. In any case I do love the lacquer, for the simple fact that it dries to the touch within a few minutes, without the worry of small particles of dust sticking to it. Even if it does take 2 to 3 days for the liquid solvents to evaporate out. But the biggest thing to me I like about lacquer is how long it can set in the gun without gumming up, our top crusting. Just out of curiosity what kind of spray lacquer do you have? I am fortunate enough to have a retail store close by and if I buy something and don't like it I can take it back immediately, and as mentioned they give you 30 days to bring it back. These are just my thoughts on this matter. I to am always looking for a good deal, and harbor freight always seems to have those, even if most of the products or basically homeowner quality, not major brands. By that I mean not medium to heavy production. For instance, in the case of these sprayers, if you have to do a lot of spraying at one time, then more than likely neither of these sprayers will be good. The main thing with the sprayers is that the longer the machine is on the hotter the air gets, and thus the quality of the spray diminishes. Hope this helps, and as always keep me posted. Thanks for hearing me out.
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post #8 of 23 Old 09-04-2010, 06:21 AM
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Can you sell the molding in lengths unfinished or do you get request for finished molding?

James
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post #9 of 23 Old 09-04-2010, 09:07 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by woodjoiner View Post
Hi again CTwoodworker
considering your circumstances, then yes one of these may be your best option. Do you have one of their outlet stores near you that you can visit? If so then go start with the cheaper model, when you get ready to spray some things. And if the cheaper one doesn't seem to doing what you like, then you have 30 days to return it with no questions asked. At which point you can move up to the more expensive one. In any case I do love the lacquer, for the simple fact that it dries to the touch within a few minutes, without the worry of small particles of dust sticking to it. Even if it does take 2 to 3 days for the liquid solvents to evaporate out. But the biggest thing to me I like about lacquer is how long it can set in the gun without gumming up, our top crusting. Just out of curiosity what kind of spray lacquer do you have? I am fortunate enough to have a retail store close by and if I buy something and don't like it I can take it back immediately, and as mentioned they give you 30 days to bring it back. These are just my thoughts on this matter. I to am always looking for a good deal, and harbor freight always seems to have those, even if most of the products or basically homeowner quality, not major brands. By that I mean not medium to heavy production. For instance, in the case of these sprayers, if you have to do a lot of spraying at one time, then more than likely neither of these sprayers will be good. The main thing with the sprayers is that the longer the machine is on the hotter the air gets, and thus the quality of the spray diminishes. Hope this helps, and as always keep me posted. Thanks for hearing me out.

I actually have one 35 mi away that I'm going to today, I'll pick up one of these sprayers and see if it works for me. If I end up using it a lot, I can upgrade to a higher quality machine. Like you said -- I can take it back if it doesn't work well for my needs.

Thanks for the advice! The information about how the longer the machine is on the quality diminshes is very helpful to keep in mind.

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Can you sell the molding in lengths unfinished or do you get request for finished molding?
I can do unfinished, and probably will do a lot, I am just trying out both to see which works better...

I'll be finishing some smaller quantities of picture frame moulding and listing it on eBay.


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post #10 of 23 Old 10-30-2010, 11:29 AM
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Wondering if you would give us an update on the sprayers? I have never sprayed lacquer, but I have wanted to do exactly what you are doing. Not for ebay, just for friends. I got a Woodmaster 718. Do you sand your molding? I still have a very light amount of chatter even after doing a lot of mods using a single knife and counterweights in the planer head. (hinge on motor, beefed up extension wings, powertwist belt, and nice bedboard)
I would love to get that thing tuned up so I don't have to sand it. I've been told it can be done. I just need to do a little more. I haven't ran much.
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post #11 of 23 Old 11-01-2010, 09:22 PM Thread Starter
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Wondering if you would give us an update on the sprayers? I have never sprayed lacquer, but I have wanted to do exactly what you are doing. Not for ebay, just for friends. I got a Woodmaster 718. Do you sand your molding? I still have a very light amount of chatter even after doing a lot of mods using a single knife and counterweights in the planer head. (hinge on motor, beefed up extension wings, powertwist belt, and nice bedboard)
I would love to get that thing tuned up so I don't have to sand it. I've been told it can be done. I just need to do a little more. I haven't ran much.
Sure,

I picked up a hvlp system from harbor freight -- not the gun, the entire system. It works great for the money, but I'll probably want to be upgrading later on...

I have sprayed a lot of hydrocote waterbased finish, and while I'm happy with the results, I don't like the fact that the drying time is a lot longer than regular lacquer. I also don't like having to sand between coats.

For moulding, don't go with a glossy finish -- I chose satin, and even still, I wish I had selected dull satin...


Sanding moulding: this is one thing that I really like to avoid. I'd be interested in hearing more of what you have done as well as what you think has helped you the most. Woodmaster does sell a drum sander to buy, although I haven't tried it yet. I try to run the mouldings slow enough so that I don't have to sand, but I have had problems with tearout on certain kinds of wood. All in all, having run about 1200 ft. most of it is defect free.

I don't have to sand it all, but on one profile that I made, I did notice that there is some minor fuzz that needs to be sanded out. I use 150 grit to do this, and sometimes a scotchbrite pad. It is a tedious job, so I'm glad I don't have to do it on every piece.

Before I finish, I seal with something like de-waxed shellac to minimize grain raising.
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post #12 of 23 Old 11-03-2010, 10:03 AM
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This is a basic overview of what I did.
http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_bas...8_Chatter.html
I hope that posting this here isn't against the rules.

It takes out most of the vibration. Do it and you won't regret it.

I did not do any of the pulley modifications. I thought about speeding up the head, but I run my knives in the planer head. I would hate to find out the hard way the top speed of flat back knives.

I just had a kid so time in the shop has been limited now. I was just getting the woodmaster tuned properly.

I'll probably start getting more time to play in a week or so.

As far as sanding, I've only used a mop sander or star sander in a cordless drill.
The guys at woodweb claim to completely remove sanding from the equation. I have only ran one profile since my mods. Not quite perfect, but close. I need to try 2 more things. I will let you know once I have time if they worked.
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post #13 of 23 Old 11-04-2010, 12:48 PM
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I am curious how you are able to compete with the companies that run 1200 ft of quality moulding in 15 minutes? Do you focus on woods not commonly produced? Do you focus on uncommon sizes or profiles? Or is this more of a hobby?
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post #14 of 23 Old 11-04-2010, 10:29 PM
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Currently, I do it for hobby. You compete by doing odd profiles. Every store has 3.25 base and 2.25 casing, but if you want 5.5" base, it will probably have to be custom made.

You can still run quality molding around 12'/min. That's 720'/hr. Not to shabby. But that's in a perfect world.

Ct said he does picture frames, which would be small quantity, but probably a rare profile.

I just think it's fun to insert a board on one end and see an awesome profile on the other.

I don't want to sound like a woodmaster commercial so I want everyone to know if you want a planer molder, there are other options.
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post #15 of 23 Old 11-05-2010, 12:55 PM
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Sorry Boardmaker, I should have been more specific. I was actually talking to the OP, I had already seen that you were doing this for friends.

I'm just curious especially for picture frame moulding because there was a company locally that was priced right out of business that did mostly picture frame moulding and they were running moulders capable of doing over 100 feet per minute at a decent quality or 70 fpm at great quality.

I actually am starting to get into custom mouldings with a 12" belsaw planer/moulder as a side to my business. I am focusing on odd species crown and extra wide base but I am always trying to pick peoples brain about their business strategies to see if I can apply something to my business. CTwoodworker, do you run 3 or 4 sets of knives at once to increase your fpm or would that diminish quality?
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post #16 of 23 Old 11-05-2010, 04:36 PM
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Actually sketel,
I'm considering doing it on the side myself. I actually just acquired the woodmaster. I still have a belsaw 910. I run single knives in the woodmaster and probably run about 12'/min.
Did you read my woodweb link?
I did that to my belsaw a while back. It makes a big difference in head vibration.

Do you buy your knives?
Have you considered a profile grinder?
You can sink a small fortune in knives.
Who do you market to, and how did you get into the market? I've considered craigslist and local contractors. Any other ideas? I've looked at ebay, but I haven't figured out a reasonable way to ship. You can ship 8', but 12' would require freight. $$$$$$$
What do you do?
Do you sand or finish your moldings?
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post #17 of 23 Old 11-05-2010, 08:53 PM
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Boardmaker, first know that I am just starting making custom mouldings with my belsaw. I did quite a bit of custom trim a few years back when people were spending money like there was no tomorrow but that was with a shaper and sometimes a router for an extra edge detail. We would then back it out on a table saw with a dado blade.

So on to your questions:

Yes, I read the woodweb link. I have not done anything to tune my belsaw up yet but it looks like it's pretty straight forward stuff so I'll definitely try it.

Since I'm focusing on just a few profiles, I don't see the need to buy a profile grinder. There were a few other factors that lead to my not wanting a profile grinder:

First, I am doing this as a side thing so I want to keep my money in my main business.

Second, I don't know how to grind profiles. I could learn but it takes experience to be able to get top quality results.

Third, if I did get to the point where I was making good knives, how much would I be paying myself to grind the knives? Would I actually follow through and charge the customer for my time grinding the knife? Probably not. Buying knives forces me to pass at least some of the cost on to the customer because I see the money leaving my pocket.

If I end up doing more volume, I may reconsider and make the purchase.

As far as marketing, I have worked with a lot of the quality homebuilders in my area and already have a good relationship with many of them.

I have thought about craigslist as well but haven't tried it.

I also sell product through a couple of local lumber yards and plan on branching out to other towns and cities within about a 100 mile radius. I got discouraged last year when I tried going in to a few places and got shut down and not treated very well. But this year I have added two more retailers to my list (from about 30 companies I emailed) so it just takes persistence.

As far as shipping, I am going to stay local unless I get to the point where I can ship a truck-load. I found out the hard way anything over 12 feet gets shipped at full truck load rates no matter what. I wanted to ship a 16' stop table for my cut-off saw but ended up having to go pick it up because it was going to cost $1500 to ship.

Going on to sanding, I have kind of a compulsive thing going so I have to sand my moulding. I've been looking at industrial shape and sand machines online to see how they work and maybe I'll come up with something to automate the process.

Now my questions:

Once tuned up, which planer has less vibration, the woodmaster or belsaw?

Why not run 3 knives? Then you could triple your feed rate and still have the same knife marks per inch.

Have you tried running multiple knife setups at once? Does this affect the quality?

Hope I didn't give you too much to read

Thanks
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post #18 of 23 Old 11-06-2010, 11:31 AM Thread Starter
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Sketel:

A lot of those big moulding places sell only wholesale, so someone would actually have to be in the picture framing business to buy from them. Also, there is usually a minimum order of one box, which contains several hundred feet. One company I know of allows you to buy by the stick, but it is TWICE as expensive as by the box.

So far, I have mostly sold at the retail level -- hobbyists can buy a small amount, like 16 ft. or even 50 ft. to meet their needs. I can sell this at a lower price than the big places do.

I also plan to focus on unique and different kinds of woods. I haven't done this yet, because I'm looking for a good supplier for those expensive woods like cherry and walnut. I think I've found one though, so I'm planning to run a bunch of different woods.

Yes, uncommon sizes and profiles -- I hope to get some customers who need me to match a certain profile, something I can do much, much cheaper than those big companies.

So, I don't try to make those small, economical profiles that those places make very, very, economically -- instead, I focus on bigger, more expensive profiles, and selling at a retail level.

Runnign 3-4 knives..... so far, I've only done one at a time because I was only doing several hundred feet of 8 different profiles, so I didn't want to spend money on a bunch of the same knives, and I didn't want to spend a lot of time adjusting things so that I could run 3-4 different profiles.

Odd shaped crowns, and wide base profiles seem like a great option, because these tend to be very expensive at most lumber yards.

Knife grinder: How much would this cost? I currently use a guy on ebay who makes knives for belsaw and woodmaster who is a lot cheaper than woodmaster's knive grinding shop. I would be willing to grind my own profiles, but for the amount of work I do now, it doesn't make a lot of sense.

Running 3 knives vs. a single knife in the head. Only reason I run a single knife is to cut expense on the profiles because I am only doing small quantity right now. When I find which profiles work better for me, I plan to upgrade.

Sanding: Woodmaster makes a mop sander attachment, but I don't have it -- does anyone have any experience with this?
Sketel, if you ever get a sanding mop, let me know how it works for you. I'd like to be able to run my profiles so no sanding is needed, but that might not always be possible.

I'm planning on selling to some lumber yards in the near future, if you could give me a few details on this that would be great

Thanks
Luke
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post #19 of 23 Old 11-06-2010, 10:40 PM
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I'd recommend a Campbell and Hausfeld HV1001. I've seen them for less than $100 online before. I have a mid-grade set up, same brand, and works like a champ.
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post #20 of 23 Old 11-06-2010, 11:10 PM
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CTwoodworker, I got the two local lumber yards to work with me pretty much because I knew people at both of them. This is a small town so they are used to working with other small businesses in the area.

Portland is about 60 miles away and that is a totally different ballgame. I had a little success by building a website and then contacting about 30 different retailers by email providing them with a brief introduction that described concisely how my product would fill a need for their customers. I got 2 replies and am working on displays for them right now.

The best advice I found about building a website was this: you don't care what other woodworkers think about your site, only what customers think. Keep the technical info and personal bio off the homepage, focus on the product and why your customer needs to get it from you. Makes sense to me.

I agree with you that it makes more sense to buy knives for a small operation. You can pick up a profile grinder for about $3000 at auction, new they are ridiculously expensive. Then you would want a template router as well, another couple grand if you can find an older one at auction. If you want to check out prices, go to irsauctions.com
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