DanBress

Hi Guys,
I am remodeling my kitchen and decided to go with cherry counter tops from lumber liquidators(http://www.lumberliquidators.com/cat...productId=1467).

They are totally unfinished, and I have never worked on a project like this before so I am wondering what I should do to finish and install them.

I've heard of people using plain old mineral oil, and I have heard of people using marine sealer. I don't think I want that super glossy candy coated look of the marine sealer so I was planning on going with the marine oil.

Should I coat all sides of the lumber with the oil?
I am also planning on installing an undermount sink. Should I do anything special to the edges of the wood that will overhang the sink?

Also how would you recommend I make the cutout for the undermount sink? Since its undermount it kind of needs to be "perfect". I was planning on drilling holes in the corner, cutting as straight as possible with a jig saw, and then cleaning it up with hand held belt and random orbital sanders.

Also how would you recommend installing this on top of the cabinets? Attach 3/4" plywood to the cabinets, then screw through the plywood into the bottom of the counter top(1 1/2") with 1 1/4" screws? Should I pre-drill the holes? Is there anything I should do to allow for expansion and contraction of the wood? Sorry if these are beginner questions, but I am a beginner.

aclose

Dan, welcome to the forum. there's a lot of good help/info here.
if you search around a bit (here and with Google) you'll find quite a bit of info on finishing butcherblocks. mineral oil is a good finish for butcherblocks, but requires regular maintenance. it's been said that with mineral oil you oil your block once a day for a week, once a week for a month then once a month for life. there are several varnish type finishes that hold up better and last a bit longer than the mineral oil. all of them are food safe once they've cured. for a counter top i think i would go with one of the varnish type solutions.
please post picts when you're done

mainzy

Hey dan;

You should hit the underside with 1 or 2 coats to keep from warping. Mineral oil is good for small stuff. I'm sure you would get sick of re-oiling every month.

What equipment do you have to apply finish?

I use a product called duravar but you have to spray it on.

God Bless;Mainzy

RLHERRON

Dan, I would definately seal it. The mineral oil over time will not look as good. We sold a lady a Brazilian Cherry top a couple of years ago. I still remember how good it looked when it came in. Saw it last month, did not look good at all. All she used was mineral oil. Mineral oil on a small cutting board is great but not for a large surface. By sealing it you will have the option in 3 - 5 years (sooner or later) of sanding it back down and getting it back to the original look. Remove all the scratches and dings which you will get over time. As far as what to seal it with, I'm not sure. Some of the other guys will have to jump in on that.

RL

DanBress

Are you saying that I should do 1/2 coats on the bottom even if I just go with mineral oil?

Right now just brushes/sponges/rags. Nothing special.

Rob

I don't think you are going to be happy with the look or durability of the cherry with just mineral oil. Cherry blotches badly, even with mineral oil. If it was me, I would go with the varnish, as mentioned.
As far as cutting it out, I would cut a rough line with the jig saw, then use a router with a flush trim bit to finish things up. Make a perfect template from some plywood to use for your router bit to follow.
Here are some pics of a kitchen I did a few years ago. The farm sink was undermount and I made a stand to hold it that incorporated right into the lower cabinet. The customer wanted to go with laminate (against my advice) so I outlined it with white oak. The oak was finished with satin ploy.
Though you are limited to brushes and rags, a very durable and great looking finish can be achieved using wipe-on poly. It's brain-less application and you could get 7-8 coats on in 2 days.

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DanBress

Rob,
Thanks for the advice and pics of your work. It looks great. How would you recommend attaching the countertop to the cabinets? I've seen people do it with 90 degree L brackets. Is it necessary to put plywood underneath? Especially if I am installing over a dishwasher?

Rob

I use plywood or whatever 3/4" scrap I have to make cross pieces for the top opening and pocket screw and glue those in flush with the cabinet top. Usually, I surround the whole inside top of the cabinet with 2" wide pieces and then put one down the center. When my countertop is positioned, I screw from underneath through these brackets and into the top. Just make sure your screws aren't too long.

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mmwood_1

Oh boy, Dan. I hope, for your sake, you have better luck than I did. I built a kitchen for a couple about 2 years ago and they ordered 4 maple butcher block style counters from Lumber Liquidators. I saturated them, both sides evenly, with mineral oil. Within a week of installation, the glue joints began failing. Lumber Liquidators flat out refused any responsibility, and turned around and put the blame on me(for the failure of the glue joints!) The manufacturer of the counters, a place in Virginia, also refused to take any responsibility. I ended up doing the repairs for free.

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mark

http://markmeyerwoodworking.com

DanBress

eep this has me a little worried. Hopefully they have gotten better over the last two years. Were you/the customer happy with the finish the mineral oil provided? how did you saturate the wood with the oil? Did you use bee's wax?

mmwood_1

Dan,
I don't mean to cause you fear and trepidation! Lumber Liquidators doesn't manufacture the counter tops. They just sell them. It's likely a different manufacturer than the one I dealt with. However, I suspect that the glue used failed, possibly due to the mineral oil saturation. I've never had that happen with Titebond, but I don't know what they were using. I couldn't get that info. from them. You might want to go with something else.
My method was to lay the counters out flat, saturate them and let them sit for an hour, then turn them over and do the other side. I would do this frequently for a week. I have had no problems with the counters I have made, nor with the counters I've ordered from Michigan Maple Block.
I suspect when a company specializes in 'liquidation', they may be selling lesser quality items in order to get rid of them for the manufacturer. Just a guess. If you're not using the counter to cut food on, a satin polyurethane may be the way to go for this. It would definitely offer much better protection against moisture damage, which you will almost certainly get around the sink, if you just use oil of any sort. I would give extra coats around that area, even on the bottom, and especially on the side edges where the sink will be. Start with a thinned coat to be sure of penetration, and don't miss any spots.

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mark

http://markmeyerwoodworking.com

DanBress

Rob, can you tell me how you would make the template for the cutout? I've never used a router before. I am assuming I would make a cut out in a piece of plywood that was the size of the sink + the size of the router base, so when I make the actual cut the base of the router is up against the template? Or would I do it so the template is the same size as the cut out, and the top of the bit hits the template?

Also, is this the router bit I would want? Home Depot doesn't seem to carry a router bit that can cut through 1 1/2" of wood

http://www.mytoolplace.net/MILWAUKEE...B000CSQKPO.htm

Rob

The template can be made from plywood or particle board or mdf. If you are using plywood, use some decent stuff that isn't warped and full of voids where the bit guide bearing will ride. A cabinet shop will probably give you a piece of something that small. You want to allow at least 4" of stock all the way around (except in the front) where your router will lay.
Draw some center lines through the piece before you go cutting it up with the jigsaw. This will give you some reference points for positioning it onto the countertop. Draw out your cutout for the sink on the plywood. Use squares and straight edges so you get your lines exactly where they need to be. The router bit will give you a small curve at the back end of the cutout where your lines meet. You can either leave those curves, make them larger for appearance sake or, cut them square with a saw afterwards. I would vote for making a larger curve on the back edges of maybe a 1/2" radius. That's up to you.
Next, take a jigsaw with a new plywood cutting blade (smoother cut) and cut out the inside of where the sink will go. Here again, I would use some straight edges to make perfectly straight cuts with my jigsaw. Whatever your template looks like is what will transfer to your countertop, so take your time.
Sand the template nice and smooth...top and bottom to get rid of any splinters and the area you just cut out. Bring your center lines down vertically onto the plywood layers so you can line the marks up with the countertop.
After you have the lines on your countertop where this template should go, clamp the template in place and draw a heavy line onto the countertop, following the template edges.
Remove the template and cut out the area with a jigsaw and a new blade. I would stay 1/8" to 3/16" inside the lines. The router will take care of the rest.
Now you are ready to adhere your template to the countertop. The bit I use for thick material follows the template on the bottom but depending on your bit is where your template will go. I always wipe off both the template and stock to be routed with mineral spirits before I apply the double-sided tape. The tape sticks better..
Carefully line up your marks and stick the template down.
The router bit height should be so the guide bushing is firmly on the edge of the template stock. You are going to move the router from left to right. The base of the router will ride on top of the template or stock with the bearing riding along the edge of the plywood template. Place an edge of the router on the template/stock and turn the router on and let it get to full speed. Hold the router comfortably but firmly and start making the cut.
I could go on and on about this but am tired of typing. Whatever you do...take your time. If you don't feel comfortable with something stop and ask. Wear your safety glasses.
I'm sure others may chime in with other hints and tips or, a completely different approach.
Good luck!
Here's the bit I use...http://www.amazon.com/RFTD5200-CARBI...123629&sr=8-13
Rob

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