conscious

at a wood show in denver we watched the sawstop in use. what a great idea! they shoved a hot dog into the blade and it barely broke the skin. loaded a couple people's pants too from the noise. it was like a balloon popping only quickly.

at that point we decided to pay the extra as it is as good as a powermatic or unisaw. finding out there are something like 6 amputations/month and over 6,000 ts accidents/mo. is a wake up call.
i don't use doctors/hospitals since i treasure my health, and don't want to have to visit the ER.

our new thinking is to just stay away from the blade period, so the thought train is pulling into the euro/combination saw station. the minimax we are looking at has a honking motor, a scoring blade with either a ten or twelve inch blade, and not only a good fence sytem but better yet, a sliding table that will slide an eight foot long piece of ply/melamine etc through the long dimension

you can use the same slider to run pieces through the shaper too. on this unit it is right behind the table saw. i was worried about ripping solid wood and then jointing it before making a second rip, but there is an attachment in which you saw the edge straight. even faster than jointing. how many passes does it take you guys to joint out a 3/16 inch bow on a jointer? then the 12 inch jointer and 12 inch planer (9 inch depth) are a total bonus, and the mortising table off the jointer motor is way too cool.

no kickback, no approaching the blade (did i mention a brake that shuts the motor down in about 3 seconds?) safety and a better quality cut.

downside; 12,495 for basic unit (four foot sliding table) add 600 for longer 8 foot slider, about 500 for shipping to the 4 corners area. a couple hundred for accessories and i'm going to be saving for a couple months. but i can walk into my local one-horse hardware store and buy a good freud blade to not cut myself with. it will also not cut anyone with a dado blade. (many euro combo's will not dado and use 30 mm arbors or other garbage like that)

wish me luck, and hopefully a little skill.

PPo

How much does the martin version of the same thing cost? The guy I'm referring to who has the 5hp powermatic is obsessed with a martin sliding saw, and he says the cost is about 15K.

mike p

both my table saws are with out the gaurds they seem to be in the way if on saw

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Daveb

I am curious why so many of you feel that the added safety provided by a bare blade with increased visibility outweighs the added safety of a guard with a splitter and anti-kickback feature. I am not criticizing, just interested. It would seem to me that a guard would have avoided many of the injuries posted in the other threat (reaching over the blade, kickback pulling thumb into the blade, etc.)

Obviously some cuts cannot be made with the guard installed. But most can. Is it really a convenience thing? It does take time to remove/replace the guard.

I have had my 3-horse cabinet saw for about 5 years and I feel the guard makes me more aware of the safety zone. I use it religiously. Since I am used to it, I also find I am more careful when it is removed -psychology I guess.

Do I have a false sense of security when using the guard? What kinds of problems can it cause that I have not seen (and hope not to)?

The only "close call" I have had was when cutting a piece of 2ft 1x1 maple for a table leg using a Rockler taper jig. I had to remove the guard to use the jig. When the leading end started to chatter and rise up, I leaned out of the way and it whizzed by me. I since modified the jig to include a tab that helps hold the leading end down to the table. Also I am better at using a push stick to further hold down the stock.

Granted, I am a weekend warrior and do not have on-the-job time pressures or large volumes of stock to cut. But I do like the guard.

Gerry KIERNAN

Hi All

I was looking at a site the other day, called "woodworking stuff", a collection of helpful woodworking goodies! by Joe Lyddon.
http://www.woodworkstuff.net.

There is a section on jigs and tools, crosscut sleds, tips, jigs, miter sleds, good ideas, etc.

There was a crosscut sled in there that one of the guys designed and built, that has a built in, removeable lexan guard. It looks like a really good design. There are a lot of other good ideas on this site too, for anyone who is interested.

And, after reading the messages on this thread, I realise that I had better start taking safety a little more seriously. I think I have been lucky so far, although I had a kick back on my Rockwell 9 inch table saw, many years ago, that split the end of my left thumb open pretty good, and hurt like hell.

Gerry

Joe Lyddon

Gerry,

Thanks again!

Would you believe that most of that CrossCut sled section came from only ONE question on a forum? My first question!
It exploded... I had to save the results... and add to it later...
Yes, lots of good ideas... from very simple to complex (but still simple)!

Y'all learn from it and enjoy! That's what it's there for.

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Joe Lyddon
www.WoodworkStuff.net
My Small Gallery

Gerry KIERNAN

hi Joe
I really liked your site. Couldn't help putting a plug in for you. I hope lots of other wood workers out there look it up. I know I'll be visiting you form time to time. If I feel I can contribute anything, I will.

Best regards

Gerry

niki

Something from across the pond...

In Europe (EU), the safety regulations are very strict and the manufacturers that wants to sell in EU, must "Play the game" according to the rules.

*Blade guard must be installed for all operations (yes, even for dado).

*all TS's must be equipped with Riving Knife (not a splitter that was dropped at the 60th in EU) that must be installed for all operations.

*The Rip Fence must be short and adjustable (the length of the rip fence should be adjusted to approximately, the end of the blade).

*The blade must come to full stop within 10 seconds.

*The operator's hand(s) should never pass above the guarded blade, a push stick of minimum 12" should be used to end the cut (the push stick must be supplied with the saw).

Interestingly, Anti-Kickback Pawls are not required and I believe that "they" know why...

I'm sure that most of you know the difference between Splitter and Riving knife but for the few that doesn't...
Riving Knife is made at the shape of the blade, located some 1/8" behind the blade and moves up and down with the blade. The thickness is greater than the blade disk but smaller than the blade kerf.

To encourage the operator to use the guard, the guard is installed in a slot in the riving knife and take 2~3 seconds to install (wing nut).

If I use them...well, I will not play the "saint", sometimes I'm not using the guard (with crosscut sled) and many times I'm using Long fence (home made) but, the Riving Knife...I never removed it since I bought this TS.

On the pic, you can see the Riving Knife, the slot at the top is for the guard installation.

Regards
niki

Joe Lyddon

Hi Niki!

You sure get around!! Very GOOD!

I'm in the process of tuning an old saw I inherited, cleaned up, & restored...

I find myself doing your kind of thinking and applying it around the shop!

Keep up the good work!

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Joe Lyddon

Gerry,

Thank you very much! Will keep that in mind...

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www.WoodworkStuff.net
My Small Gallery

Gerry KIERNAN

Hi Joe
I was looking at another thread, about dovetail jigs, and then looked at your site, and found the dovetail jig shoot-out. I'm going to mention that on the thread about dovetail jigs, because even though the shoot out is far from complete, the reviews, done so far, are absolutely excellent.

Kudos to all of you.

Gerry

BULLHART

Had surgery this morning. I took an inch off of my left thumb yesterday with my table saw. I have no idea how. I was ripping some drawer sides, so i was going a little quick, production style. I was using a push stick with my right hand , and my left shouldn't have even been on the table. i went back and looked when I got home today, the cut was complete, i don't know if I reached for something with my left hand or what. i don't even remember.

now I have a triple edged problem,

1. the hospital and surgery bills

2. the current cabinet project falling behind.

3. the time sensitive jobs I will have to pass on while i get caught up. If my builders can't wait that means they'll have to get another carpenter on the job....not my best idea of a business plan.

Just be careful out there guys. It hurts way more than physically.

Joe Lyddon

Golly!! Sure glad you're OK, otherwise... always could be worse...

Sure is SADDENING hearing things like this... Makes one SUPER carefull!!

Take care!

I think your customers will understand when you just tell them what happened... People are nice that way... I think (hope)!

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johnep

Well at least in the UK you would not have any hospital or medical bills.
Presume everyone in USA working with tools has insurance.
johnep

johnep

Just had a thought, butchers wear chain mail gloves, they would be a good precaution when working with a saw.
johnep

Gerry KIERNAN

Sorry to hear about your thumb Bullhart.
It can sure happen quick . Were the surgeons able to reattach the thumb, or are you minus that inch? Hope you heal quickly.
regards;

Gerry

BULLHART

Gerry,
Unfortunately the section of thumb was not salvageable. They took a skin graft (sp?) from my hand to create a new end.

Thanks everyone for your kind words. Its not the medical bills that bother me AS MUCH as the other two issues. JL's thinking aligns with mine that most people are understanding and kind. The customers that I am building the cabinets for brought us over dinner, and were very kind. It was hard to take, they were so nice. Some of the other builders that I work for were understanding, but a couple asked for a reference of someone to finish the job. Thank goodness that my other business (the builder side that I have little to do with anymore other than paper and ink) is close to closing a house. So that will help me weather the storm.

I got a few nice emails from you guys, thank you. Just know that the purpose of this post wasnt to solicit sympathy but to warn you. I use my saw every day, just like alot of you. I think the more comfortable you are with the tool, the more relaxed you become. I use push sticks and the like, but I dont even know how this happened. The cut was complete. I'm guessing that I reached to move a piece of off cut scrap or something with my left hand. The fact that i dont remember, is a harbinger of the "production zone" that I must have been in. Just be careful guys.

Gerry KIERNAN

Hi Bullhart

Sory to hear that the thumb could not be reattached. I think I speak for all of us when I say i know you were not looking for sympathy. I appreciate the warning, and I hear exactly what you are saying. We all get too comfortable with our equipment, and sometimes forget how devastating the damage can be.
We all wish you a speedy recovery from your injury, and a resumption of your wage earning capability. Being without an income can be difficult.
Good luck.
Keep us posted on your recovery.

Best regards

Gerry

johnep

Sorry but not entirely sure what 'kick back' is. My circular saw has 'anti kick back' limiters behind each tooth. surely as saw rotates towards feed, then force is to push down on feed stock and this should keep wood firmly on table. If slot is larger than saw blade, then presumably splinters can be carried round and projected at you. Is this kick back?
johnep

niki

Hi John

Well, that's not a kickback. In general, kickback is a situation that the rear teeth of the blade (the teeth that are coming up), catch the workpiece and throw it back to the operator at a speed of approximately 150 MPH.

There is a nice explanation buy Ray Girling (from your country) that explain the causes and prevention of kickback
http://www.raygirling.com/kickback.htm

niki