shivi

hello.

Thank you for sharing
Dust collection is very important, both for your health and safety, and for the air that goes through the heating system in your home. "Unfortunately, size is more than simply a matter of how many, and which machines, are to be collected, though that is certainly part of the equation. You must also consider opening size, pipe length and diameter, number of corners, etc. What you really need is a way to design the whole system.
"There are two convenient ways to go about that, one of which is upfront, while the other is cheaper in the long run. Companies like Oneida offer free dust collection system design services on their web site.
"While a commercially designed system may be free, buying the recommended system may not be the cheapest way to accomplish your goals. Instead, you might prefer the learn-it-yourself approach. For that, I would suggest you pick up a copy of Sandor Nagyszalanczy's book "Woodshop Dust Control" published by Taunton Press.

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internal doors

Ash

Ordered the book... hopefully it will help!

Ash

Thank you for helping me make my decision!
I have decided to go with the Delta + the Wynn 35A to replace the bag and I will add the pre-separator (?from woodcraft). The total will come to about $500... more than I was hoping to spend, but after doing some readings... I am really scared and concerned. Plus I can make all the mods slowly, allowing me to spread out the expense.
A couple of questions though...
- Is there a good remote(wireless) starter switch that I can add, that doesnt cost a whole lot?
- Is air filtration necessary too - like a benchtop or a hanging unit?
- Is there an affordable air monitoring system that I can install in the shop that can objectively tell me how effective my interventions are?

dbhost

Other than power consumption, which isn't that bad, my only running costs are.

#1. Water to on VERY rare occasion wash the filter out when it gets too nasty to flow. I have not had to do this yet, but it IS the reason I got the spun bond poly filter instead of the paper blend. My filter cost me $45.00 more than the cheaper one, but it was WELL worth it to me.

#2. Plastic lower bags. Wynn sent bags with the filter (3 if I recall correctly). I recently set up a pre-separator instead of a separator baffle in the inlet ring, and am only gathering VERY fine dust in the lower bag. I do NOT want to go dumping this out. I would rather just tie the bag off and chuck it in the trash... Wynn sells replacement lower bags, a 10 pack for $13.00. At the rate of separation, I might go through a bag a year now... So no big deal...

To give you an idea of how my system is set up, I have...

#1. Harbor Freight #87869 2 HP Dust Collector. http://www.harborfreightusa.com/usa/...t%20Collectors

#2. Wynn Environmental 35A kit. Model #35A100SBOL http://www.wynnenv.com/35A_series_cartridge_kit.htm

#3. 55 gallon recycled open head plastic drum. NOTE: Baytec is local to me, their pick up prices are DRAMATICALLY lower than their web prices, and no shipping costs. If you can, source your drum locally. http://www.bayteccontainers.com/55galoppldr.html

#4. Thien baffle, and separator lid. http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=223.0 (link to my 55 gallon drum build), http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=137.0 (Link to my write up on building one for a trash can).

#5. PSI super flex 50' 4" hose. (You need something to connect the DC to the separator, and the separator to the machines. Amazon.com: PSI Woodworking D50C 4-Inch by...
Now I had previously done this with a Ridgid 12 gallon wet / dry vac, with a HEPA filter, and a 20 gallon trash can based Thien pre separator. http://www.cgallery.com/smf/index.php?topic=72.0

I still have the shop vac based setup that I use for sanders (a DC isn't going to pull enough vacum to effectively capture through the small ports on a handheld sander...), and also for my blade guard port on my table saw (My TS has 3 ports, which is too much for a single dust collector to handle).

The system is very effective, and relatively inexpensive. I do have the material for permanent plumbing of the system, but that is a project that is coming down the road later. Part of a complete shop remodel. For now I am moving a single 20' hose to each machine as I need it.

Any dust that the dust collection system misses, I pick up with an inexpensive box fan, with a 20x20 filtrete Ultra Allergen filter installed. If I recall this thing is rated at .5 microns. I duct taped every orafice where air could leak around so that it is forced through the filter instead of say sucking around the sides etc...

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dbhost

If you haven't bought the pre separator from Woodcraft yet, I encourage you to seriously look at the Thien. I started with something similar to the Woodcraft unit, and it had very poor separation. I have not used one of the ones Woodcraft has, but it looks nearly identical in design to the one I used.

Remote switches? PSI LR110 for $47.85 is about the cheapest I have found for a quality one. Amazon.com: PSI Woodworking LR110-3 110-Volt Long...Harbor Freight is rumored to have a decent one, but I have never seen them up close and personal. My local HF has a slot for them on the shelf, but they are always out...

Separate air cleaning / filtration isn't neccesary as in you won't die today if you don't do it. BUT... It IS a really good idea. The benchtop, and hanging units can be good (just like the dust collector, check the filtration level, many are 5 micron, which is useless.). I went the cheap, but effective route by grabbing a decent, but cheap box fan. I got the one that blocks off air flow except right in front of, and right behind the blades... 404 - Document Not FoundThis filter is rated at .3 micron filtration.

The least expensive, reasonably well regarded air quality meter I know of is the Dylos laser air quality meter. It retails for $219.99. Depending on where you live, you may have a Woodworking club near you that can loan you one. Amazon has them as well... Amazon.com: Laser Air Quality Monitor: Kitchen... and occasionally I see group buys on the forums for these...

A word of caution. DO NOT USE an air cleaner system while you are working. They are intended to clean the air afterwards as they will stir up dust and debris while they operate.

An inexpensive overhead unit is the one now offered by Harbor Freight. I am not sold on this one though as the filtration efficiency is quite low. By the time you added proper filters, you would be up in the range of a good name brand unit. Bang for the buck wise the box fan / filtrete filter setup is probably best...

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-- Trying to follow the example of the master...

kitchen

I have to agree with answer 1. Certainly a more powerful shop vac/exhaust system would work also, and usually found in commercial shops.

If you've assembled to instructions and have the space; the "Funnel" idea is extremely effective. I made mine out of Luan initially and not ROUND. It was a box in effect, with larger opening closer to the discharge. The only way I can analogize the look of it is a Pyramid with the top cut off.
At the back end the collection hose fits to the box.

I suspect I'd be more concerned however in what you describe as spring forward and sideways all over the place.

M1911Bldr

I installed a Shop Fox 1 1/2 HP DC in my shop and used 4" sewer/drain pipe. It worked OK but left fine dust all over. I recently upgraded to 6" pipe and WOW what a difference. My main run is "not properly designed" as it runs linearly through the shop with balst gate ports added to the sides in the tool locations and it runs "up and over" to get to the other side of the shop. I don't have any problems with pipe/air velocity carrying fine dust to the DC and it improved airflow at the collections points DRAMATICALLY. I installed a Thien separator in the metal ring between the upper and lower bags and installed a Wynn 35A poly filter in place of the upper bag and a "paddle cleaner" inside the filter. I can do the "white glove inspection" test on the DC itself and there is no dust at all on the unit. 5" pipe might give better vertical lift if you need it but 4" pipe will severely restrict your airflow.

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Measure with a micrometer, mark with a chalk, cut with a chainsaw!
Cut to print, grind to fit, paint to match.

dbhost

M1911Bldr, You have a nice set up there. I am going to slightly disagree with you on the pipe size issue. 4" works, but it needs to be in short, straight runs. You have elbows, (Short radius 90 degrees no less) in there. Each bend creates restriction. Since you have done a LOT of work on your DC system to reduce / eliminate restrictions, (Moving the impeller up straight in line with the inlet ring, replacing the bag with a 35A etc...) I am pretty sure you knew that already...

My dust collection problem isn't the 4" duct, it's forgetting to turn on the DC... (Boy smart like brick sometimes), or worse, since I am remodeling the shop right now, I am not even using duct, but a single 4" hose that I go machine to machine with. I have been known to move the hose, turn the DC on, do my cuts, or whatever and look up to see a cloud coming from say under the table saw.. I moved the hose, but forgot to connect it!

When it is all set up and hooked up, even with the single long (20') hose, I can measure a DROP in ambient particle counts in the shop when using the DC.

Now having disagreed with you, let me agree with you. Even though my 4" works, 6" would work better. Honestly for my DC, and most home workshop single stage type DCs, 5" would be ideal, but the plumbing for that would be cost prohibitive to most of us.

BTW, I love the flapper mod you did to the 35A. I saw that on the Wynn site. It won't work for me as my DC is mounted on a stand and has merely 1" clearance from the ceiling, but it is still a fantastic idea...

Yours is the 3rd single stage DC I have seen this week with the impeller lifted, and spun around up to the inlet ring like that. I am feeling like SOMEBODY is giving me a hint! I may end up drawing up a cart to put my DC, motor spun like yours, with my 55 gallon Thien Separator on it, Make it all mobile, and maybe take up less floor space in the long run...

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woodnthings

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/attac...m-100_0636.jpg
I have a few spares to swap out when it gets filled. I ditched the 3 legged camel stand and use bungees to hold it down to the base. The drums are heavy even when 3/4 ths full, and go out to the compost pile and get covered with soil. bill

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Never stand directly in front of a horse or tablesaw that's running!
If you're not making dust, you're gathering it. After I reread my own posts, I agree with myself even more.

dbhost

Very cool. How do you seal the drum to the inlet ring? I would think it would be pretty easy if the sizes are close enough, to make a gasket from foam weatherstrip.

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woodnthings

It was not that easy. Actually it took 2 round feeding pails/dishes from Tractor Supply, each having the center cut out leaving only a 1 1/2" portion that includes the rim and flange. Then electrical tape them together and foam gaskets in the rims. I have 3 of these so I have a lot of partial feeding dishes stacked up. It just so happens that the diameters are right for fitting on top of the drums and into the dust collector hub. bill

__________________
Never stand directly in front of a horse or tablesaw that's running!
If you're not making dust, you're gathering it. After I reread my own posts, I agree with myself even more.

M1911Bldr

... so goes the story about dust collection. When you get right down to it, we're all correct. 5" pipe would be ideal in my opinion. It's big enough to give great ariflow and small enough to keep the air velocity up. I had l-o-n-g sweep-type elbows in my 4" pipe. And, like I said, it worked OK. But the airflow at the end of the first horizontal run - before the elbow that takes it "up and over" - is so much greater with the 6" pipe! You can put a paddle cleaner on your filter, even with the minimal clearance. The little black thing on top of mine is a windshield wiper motor that turns the paddles. I have 12VDC in my shop to operate my blast gate "auto-closers" and it runs the motor to clean the filter. ... and the sweep-type elbows were $36.00 apiece! So, alas, money dictated the type of elbow I used.

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__________________
Measure with a micrometer, mark with a chalk, cut with a chainsaw!
Cut to print, grind to fit, paint to match.

dbhost

Holy dish rags Batman!

I have seen 6" sch 20 sweep elbows around here for around $15.00 each. Which is still kind of high, but $36.00 HURTS.

Honestly, I went with 4" based on cost, and the fact I would have to upgrade my machine hoods to take advantage of the 6". As it is, many of my machines are fitted with a single 2.5" port, I wye the 4" to 2 @ 2.5", hook one to the machine, and another to a strategically placed shop built 2.5" ported hood. For example clamped off to the left side of the table on the Ridgid Sander to catch the stuff shooting off of the belt @ 100mph...

So far it is working well. I guess I could do the same thing but split 2.5" and 4"...

The shop vac rig still services the planer and jointer though. Necking the 4" down to 2.5" has been a disaster...

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