Box Elder bowl - Woodworking Talk

john lucas · 09-10-2009, 03:31 PM

This is my latest bowl. It was roughed out as part of a photo project to show shavings coming off the gouge. I wasn't actually trying to make a bowl the shape just sort of came that way. The next morning when I was cleaning up the 6 bags of shavings I decided to stop and try and save this piece.
It's about 1/8" thick and 13" in diameter. It is box elder but only had a tiny bit of red.

toolman Steve · 09-10-2009, 04:15 PM

Very nice work I like the little rim on the edge. someday I have to get up the guts to try something like that.

john lucas · 09-10-2009, 05:29 PM

It's not guts, just patience. Take is slow and take little bites and you'll be OK.

The Everyman Show · 09-10-2009, 06:27 PM

That really is a beautiful bowl. Great job.

Mitch Cholewinski · 09-10-2009, 07:02 PM

John LucasVery nice bowl John. I really like the shape and of course your work is always top shelf. Mitch

firehawkmph · 09-10-2009, 07:56 PM

Nice looking bowl John.
Was that piece green when you turned it? That would have made for some nice video of the shavings coming off the gouge.
Mike Hawkins

slatron25 · 09-10-2009, 10:23 PM

Good looking bowl John. Is it just my eyes or has it warped a little?

The woodsman · 09-10-2009, 11:30 PM

Very nice piece there,

when I get em that thin its usually because I keep scewin up

john lucas · 09-11-2009, 02:59 PM

The piece was slinging water green when I turned it. It got that thin because of a bad place not far from the lip. It kept wanting to tear out even with very sharp tools. I had turned it down to about 3/8" or a little less when the bad area appeared. I kept turning very gently with a bowl gouge ground at 40 degrees. When I got through the bad area it was less than 1/4" thick. I reduced the size a little more to clean up the shape and then simply went down the bowl an inch at a time making it that thin.

Dvoigt · 09-11-2009, 05:40 PM

I've been wanting to turn some small bowls... I just got up the nerve to buy the TN lathe chuck from PSI... so now i'll be able to make some bowls.... and pepper mills.... and chess pieces... and some free forms stuff..... OH MAN OH MAN....

jdixon · 09-19-2009, 12:46 PM

John, nice looking bowl, I like the flair of the rim to the edge. Why does some box elder not have much red? Is it mostly sapwood? Or do some trees just not have as much red in the wood? Maybe soil related? Just wondering.

John

phinds · 09-19-2009, 01:04 PM

The red in box elder is from a fungus. If the tree doesn't get infected it doesn't have any red.

**TexasTimbers** · 09-19-2009, 02:44 PM

Nice looking bowl John. I really like that shape.

**TexasTimbers** · 09-19-2009, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jdixon

John, nice looking bowl, I like the flair of the rim to the edge. Why does some box elder not have much red? Is it mostly sapwood? Or do some trees just not have as much red in the wood? Maybe soil related? Just wondering.

John

The red coloration is a result of what dendrologists call "a non-specific host response" to wounds in the tree. Extreme stress can also cause it such as wind shake. In most cases though (nearly all) the wounds are the result of borer infestation i.e. the Boxelder Bug (they make shallow wounds to suck sap but only in the female trees) and the Ambrosia Beetle are the most common. Where the red pigment is found, mycologists have discovered two fungi which are most prevalent but not always, which eliminates the possibility of the etiology being due solely to fungi.

Many sites on the internet repeat the once-held belief that the red color is a result of one or more fungi i.e. Fusarium reticulatum or Fusarium solani (which are the two most prevalent when a fungus is present). The actual cause of the red color has not been isolated past the known necessity of a borer attack or extreme stress, which precipitates the non-specific host response. It's like the tree's immune system's response.

There have been serious efforts to both understand the cellular nature of the phenomenon, and also commercial efforts to replicate it, but scientist have not even been able to discover the chemical composition of the red pigmentation in the laboratory. Not even generally. They suspect it is a phenol but are not even sure about that. So as far as what causes it to occur in the tree, all that is known for certain is that without some type of wounding or extreme stress, the tree will not initiate that mysterious chain of events necessary to cause the red color to appear.

My theory is that God is smarter than us.

jdixon · 09-19-2009, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TexasTimbers

My theory is that God is smarter than us.

can't say I disagree with that!

Thanks to TT and Phinds for responding. Interesting stuff!

John

phinds · 09-19-2009, 08:16 PM

TT, thanks for that extensive explanation. I thought it was fungus, but always happy to be corrected when I'm wrong.

Paul

john lucas · 09-19-2009, 09:58 PM

My friend who hunts this stuff religiously says that you will always find it in trees that are in a stress invironment, like a farm lot or where they clear for power lines or along fence rows. He says he rarely finds any color in trees that are back in the woods.
The one this bowl came from was in a yard of a very old house. I have some bowls that have much more color. This one was near the outer edge of the tree and the color just didn't go that far.

Eugene In NC · 09-25-2009, 09:23 PM

John, that is very nice. I like the form very much. I think I will try something similar. My version will have to be a little thicker as I lack the skill necessary to make it that thin. Thanks for posting it.
Eugene

Jeff4woodturning · 09-29-2009, 09:51 PM

beautiful bowl, very nicely done. Jeff

**joasis** · 09-29-2009, 09:57 PM

Nice turning, very well done!