Simple butt joint problem ? - Woodworking Talk

**Daren** · 08-16-2007, 09:13 AM

I am scratching my head on the simplest thing. I am working on a table top that is just 2 bookmatched boards. It is wood I milled and dried myself, and man was it full of stress (hence the odd clamping in the picture). Ok, I get my boards ready, they had a curve to them so I straight edged them on the saw, then ran them across the jointer. I glue them and clamp them...wipe off the excess glue and there is a visible glue line

like in the close up. Maybe 1/16 of an inch. I check my jointer, everything looks fine. But it had to be that.
I stew on it for a minute and decide to let the glue dry, at least it would be flat to fix later. I figured since the glue line was straight and small I could clamp a straight edge to the top and rip the line out with the kerf of a circular saw. So I put a panel saw blade on the circular saw to avoid any tear out and go to it. I sawed out 1/8" right down the middle removing the glue and should just butt right back up...nope

, still looks like crap. What am I missing ? I am not putting them back on the jointer, I was scared to do it in the first place this is highly figured wood (curls and burls), I figured for sure I would knock out a big chunk. I crossed my finger the first time, no problems, but I won't do it again.
Any other tricks besides going at it again with the saw? I went ahead and glued it, but I don't like it. Flip it over and saw from the bottom ? Should not make a lick of difference, but the first attempt didn't work.

**Daren** · 08-16-2007, 10:12 AM

I am going to answer my own question, and see what anyone thinks. The glue is not dry (gotta type fast). The bottom of the joint is good, the gap is in the top. Why the circular saw did not fix that I do not know. Here is my plan. Throw a cup in the top with pressure, bending the outsides down. Then run the saw down the joint again ? It will remove more from the bottom and let the top close up. Sounds odd, but I cannot think of another way ?

skymaster · 08-16-2007, 12:35 PM

Daren: You might want to check your jointer fence setup, sounds like it is out of square. Onlu problem I see developing is when you resaw it the grain goes farther out from matching.Also Y cant you just take a block plane or other and adjust that joint without losing all that material?
JackM

edp · 08-16-2007, 01:32 PM

might disappear if you remove the cauls? If so, this would be a sign of surfaces that are not paralellel. For wood as beautiful as the stock you are working on, I might be inclined to true up the edges by taking a fine cut with a router guided by an aluminum straight edge. I keep a 10' section of extruded aluminum angle with a 3" leg and an 8" leg x 3/8" thick for guiding saws and routers. Provides a very reliable edge to guide from. I think it cost $45.00 from the wholesaler we buy our metal from at my day job.

Ed

**Daren** · 08-16-2007, 03:26 PM

Well, I fixed it. Why I had so much trouble I do not know. I wiped it with a wet cloth for the pictures, there is an ever so faint line of wet glue, but the glue dries the same color as the wood. It should be fine. I still have to final sand it.

I was going to leave this piece live edge, but it just did not work out, too rotten. I have some slabs of the same stuff with a live edge all the way around. This was some funky rotten old stuff, most guys would not have given it a second look. The uglier the better for me.

**Daren** · 08-16-2007, 03:41 PM

I saw this as soon as I opened the log, H.R. Giger, biomechanical surrealist. I even made the legs already (before the wood dried and fell apart

), I guess I will have to use them on one of the slabs in the picture still on the mill, they are funkier yet and except for some cracking seem to be fairing better that the rotten pieces I picked to use first . I don't think they would look right under this top now without the live edge, a symmetrical book with rounded ends. I just had to cut the ends round, nothing good was left to work with. Guess I got to get to work thinking up some legs for this top

. Oh well I have the wood and the time.

skymaster · 08-16-2007, 04:02 PM

daren; just supercallafragilistic awesomist,bodeaous,uhhhhh super kewl, suhweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet, yeah all that stuff
JackM

**Daren** · 08-16-2007, 07:53 PM

One of the pictures reminds me, use a feather board when you are supposed to...I lost that thumbnail a couple years ago on a kickback. Hurt like the dickens and never did grow back right. Wood stain gets under it and won't come out (I think it is mahogany in the picture

)

edp · 08-16-2007, 09:06 PM

that's all good and all but, what did you do to correct the problem? Enlighten us if you will.

Ed

**Daren** · 08-16-2007, 11:20 PM

Ed

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daren

Here is my plan. Throw a cup in the top with pressure, bending the outsides down. Then run the saw down the joint again ? It will remove more from the bottom and let the top close up. Sounds odd, but I cannot think of another way ?

I used a warped board clamped to the bottom from the sides to just open the joint at the top a little. Ran the circular saw down the joint against a straight edge, like I planned. Viola, fixed. Don't ask me why I could not get a good glue up the first 2 tries (not my first rodeo). I was asking myself, and you guys

. But it worked, flat and clean. I still can't figure out why, but don't care now and will remember it in the future (hope I never have a similar problem just sticking 2 boards together, wow)

Orson Carter · 08-17-2007, 02:34 PM

Hi Darren,
I know you've already fixed the problem on that beautiful timber, but I'd like to show you a butt joint I made using a Plunge saw. It is a Festool TS75 and is mounted on an Aluminium rail. Nothing but the saw was used in this joint. The tmber is Merbau. A Pacific timber with a very high Silica content.(Fresh cut surfaces are canary yellow!) The timber is 1 3/4" deep, and the boards are about 3' long.

Regards,

Orson

edp · 08-17-2007, 08:32 PM

another Festool convert in the mix. There is just no escaping these guys. They are just like the jehovahs witnesses. But they sure do have great tools and obviously, pockets deeper than my own.

Ed

johnep · 08-18-2007, 03:14 AM

I was gobsmacked by your sawn joint so had a look at Uk suppliers of festool TS75. Had not realised that was a circular saw mounted on a 1.4mtr rail. I can not afford the £452 ($900) cost but am sure goint to see if I can mount my saw on some sort of alloy extrusion/rail and try to attain similar result. I have jsut purchased a Bosch 160mm 36 tooth TCT blade which gives a very fine cut so am hopeful.

This forum is great for ideas, mounting a saw on a rail cannot be done with pocket holes I guess!
johnep

Orson Carter · 08-18-2007, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edp

another Festool convert in the mix. There is just no escaping these guys. They are just like the jehovahs witnesses. But they sure do have great tools and obviously, pockets deeper than my own.

Ed

Uhm..wouldn't that be sporans?

BULLHART · 08-18-2007, 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edp

another Festool convert in the mix. There is just no escaping these guys. They are just like the jehovahs witnesses. But they sure do have great tools and obviously, pockets deeper than my own.

Ed

Some are worth it, some are not. The TS series is definitely worth it. In my opinion the router and jigsaw are not. Mine sit on the shelf whilst I'm using my Bosch router and Jigsaw. My TS55 is one of the best investments I've made.

**TexasTimbers** · 08-18-2007, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnep

. . . . . . mounting a saw on a rail cannot be done with pocket holes I guess!

Au Contraire! All ya need is a stable wooden rail and drill some appropriate holes in the saw plate.

Seriously though I am like you I bet you could do well with a shop built jig, it would just be dificult to get the smoothness and repeatable accuracy I imagin the Festool has.

Personally I want one. I think I can justify it.

Orson Carter · 08-18-2007, 12:37 PM

Hi all,

The TS75 is a gem, jointing was never so easy. The TS55 is a better choice if you are moving from one site to the next as it is lighter and eminently suitable for panel work. I actually like the weight of the '75 as it sits well on the rail and I tend to cut deep timber for furniture legs etc.
Now, Makita have released a similar set up with the saw and rail and it wouldn't take much for it to be cheaper than Festool.

I have respect for Makita tools, but have not seen this in action.
Bullhart, I have the OF2000 router and the Trion Jigsaw and love both. I guss its horse for courses. Have you tried adjusting the screws next to the bladeon the Jigsaw? That may help in some situations. But back to the TS75. I didn't tell you what blade I used. It was a standard rip blade, 36 tooth! Kerf is about 3.5mm.
Just for the record, here's some very fine bead I cut with it. The three sticks are 3, 4 and 5mm, again with the 36 tooth blade. The coin is an Oz 5 cent, a little less than the size of a nickel.

Regards,

Orson

johnep · 08-18-2007, 12:43 PM

Um - has anyone attached a rail wood/alloy to plate of circular saw.

I am leaning towards alloy on account of hopefully actually being a good straight edge. Someone mentioned large size alloy angle. Iwill see what my local store has. I would prpose clamping the staight edge to the work and using to guide the saw. The clip on fence guide provided with the saw is pretty well useless.
johnep

**TexasTimbers** · 08-18-2007, 03:15 PM

john - although it is possible to use a wood rail I was playing along with what I thought was your being cheeky by suggesting using pocket holes. Definately look for extruded aluminium or the like.

edp · 08-18-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orson Carter

Uhm..wouldn't that be sporans?

not a bit of it me lad. sporans are for the sissy lowlanders what needs a place to hold their coin. we highlanders, true men and proud, need only a wee bit o twine to keep our parts where they ought stay. Oh, and a decent sized jug of scotch to take our mind off the fact taht we have no coin.

Ed