Nate1778

Kreg jig for sure.

Its not the end all but if I had to choose one, that would be it.

I do have a biscuit jointer, mortiser and tennoning jig though to cover all the basis. Each project in mind calls for a different method, but the Kreg will work in most applications.

radionightster

When you buy the Kreg jig it tells you all of this. It gives you a guide showing how deep to make the hole, and it tells you what size screw to use. (It all depends on the thickness of the wood you are using.) It recommends using Kreg's proprietary screws.

Look up "Kreg pocket hole jig" on http://www.youtube.com - there are a few videos which show just how easy it is.

If you haven't used this tool, it is amazingly easy. On my first project ever (a basic box), I used the Kreg jig. If you follow directions it is difficult to make a mistake. It is super easy and very nice, and the pockets it leaves in the wood are very professional looking (but you should fill them in :) - the make a part for that too). I would recommend buying Kreg's clamp too if you don't have a similar one.

I think some of this pocket screw VS MT/dado comes from some people believing that there should not be any metal in a piece of wood. My uncle is like a Picasso with wood, making honestly the most beautiful cabinets I've ever seen (for multi-million dollar houses, etc), and he doesn't like the idea of using pocket screws. Me? I liked it :)

cabinetman

I never met your uncle, but I like him already. If he gets physically sick to his stomach at the thought of biscuits, I might even invite him over for a beer, or a bottle of a fairly expensive wine while we shoot the $hit about woodworking.

radionightster

If you ever pass through southern Louisiana let me know!

toddj99

I use the kregg jig quite a bit lately. Never used a bisuit joiner. I have deep respect for those who can do the nice joinery in a fairly quick fashion but I'm figuring this stuff out as I go, never have had any official schooling, apprenticeship, or training and have to be able to put out a project in a reletively quick manner since my time is balanced between my wife/kids, full time job then the woodworking. The kregg helps me do just that and the customers I have aren't the type to spend 5 grand on an item. The most expensive thing I have lined up to construct is a computer desk for 1500 to be done by DEC. As for wishing to have a level of skill, I would kill to have the ability of this individual at this site: http://www.woodweb.com/galleries/pro...osts/1355.html. He's only a few years older than me but he went straight into woodworking while I've spent most of my adult life in the army.

rrbrown

Cabinet Man if you don't like pocket screws or bisquits what do you use for face frames?

__________________
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Richard

Once A Marine Always A Marine.

Some choose to study history, but Marines choose to create history.

Leo G

Do it the old fashion way with dowels oe the antique way with mortise and tenon.

To time consuming for making money on cabinet, but the standard for fine furniture.

__________________
Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
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cabinetman

Most all of my casework is done frameless. Faceframes to me are a waste of time and an added expense. For overlay door and drawer front applications, most all of the faceframe is covered anyway. Hinges and mounting plates for face frames are IMO inferior to frameless setups. These are a few of the reasons I don't do faceframes. Frameless construction if done with approporiate materials and reasonable dimensions work out just fine. I don't find whatever strength a FF gives the cabinet is worth the difference.

I will do faceframes if the design calls for that detail, or that there is a need for a FF to add to the visual aspect of the job, like carvings, or intricate profiling or a moulding in between doors.

One aspect about FF's is that I like the underside of the cabinets flush and finished, and the floors of the cabinet flush. That means that the bottom rail is going to be 3/4" x 3/4". That doesn't add enough rigidity to the floor of the cabinet to make it worthwhile doing a FF. Next is adding drawer slides, which for frameless cabinets is a snap. You're not dealing with the FF overhang.

Anyway, I kinda got off the subject here. Now to answer your question. When I do faceframes, there are a few fast ways of doing them. One way is I cut all my rails long and my lathe can take almost 40" in length. So, I turn the ends for a 3/8" dowel, and having it a bit long, cut off the stub from the spur bit. Drill a 3/8" hole in the stile, and it fits.

Another method I use is a through tenon, which can be cut pretty fast on the TS:
.

.
Or, I might do a half lap joint which is a very strong joint:
.

Leo G

Not very Old School.

__________________
Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
TGIF just means two more working days until Monday http://lrgwood.com

rrbrown

Well Cabinetman thanks for the answer but I disagree with your opinion some. I like the look of a FF and agree that it is slightly harder to mount drawers because of the FF. I don't like the pocket screws but I do use the biscuits in the FF although that is my choice. I dado the face frames to except a rabbit on the sides and bottom along with the bottom and back rabbits into the sides. It is a little more work but very strong. below is how I join the FF and bottom and as you can see it does provide a lot of strength even using 1/2" for the bottom is strong. I like to shoot small brads in the joints and at the biscuits but always where they are not visible.

I will however try some of your methods because I always like to learn new ways of doing things. I doubt it but one day I may even try a pocket screw jig.

What really bothers me is I bought a new house after Katrina and it has all " custom " wood cabinets so they say. One they're oak I hate oak. Two although they used pocket screws what really drives me nuts is they nailed right threw the FF into the cabinet. When I build custom cabinets You would have to turn them upside down or look from the back to find a nail and then it is only a small hidden brad. No matter how much you try to cover the nails you can always see them so why nail threw the FF?

As for the oak my wife is trying to get me to change them but I have thick solid granite that I'm not willing to move. So for the time being the oak is fine.

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__________________
Semper Fi
Richard

Once A Marine Always A Marine.

Some choose to study history, but Marines choose to create history.

rrbrown

I need to learn to draw with sketchup like Leo G. It starts off easy and by the time I get almost done everything goes wrong.

__________________
Semper Fi
Richard

Once A Marine Always A Marine.

Some choose to study history, but Marines choose to create history.

Leo G

I don't use sketchup, never have. I do my renderings with eCabinet.

__________________
Measure Twice Cut Once -- It's a lot easier to cut more off then it is to cut MORON.
TGIF just means two more working days until Monday http://lrgwood.com

cabinetman

IMO, 1/2" is inadequate for carcass construction. The thinnest material I would use is melamine when it's 5/8". As for face frame mounting to the front edge, just glue and clamps is all that's needed. No profiles are necessary. If you assemble the FF, and it's square. block sand the back of it to make sure it's flat, and that's including the joints. Block sand the leading edge of the cabinet. After it's glued and clamped, you can't pull it off. In fact, once the glue dries, using a block and hammer to pound it off, the front edge of the cabinet will likely get destroyed. DAMHIKT

Once glued on, the joinery is well substantiated by all the pieces being glued to the edge. That's when a 3/4" edge will provide an excellent adhesion surface. Using biscuits to mount a face frame provides a questionable bond to keep parts from pulling apart. Face frames don't have to be earthquake proof.

In addition, there's a myth that biscuits are good for alignment. If there is enough room to slide in a biscuit, there's room for movement. Biscuits can also expand to the point that they could show a "bump" in the surface of the panel. I'm just offering my opinion for whatever that's worth.

SawsAll

I started with a bisquit jointer when I had an opportunity to buy a like new used one and I thought it was a great tool to have around. Since then I purchased a Kreg jig and for time sake it will save you in the long run. With the Kreg you don't have to wait for the glue to dry to continue on with the project. I have to agree with the Cabinetman when it comes to regular joinery, it something you can take pride in!!!

rrbrown

Cabinetman I asked the question so I was interested in your opinion even if I don't agree totally, it's still new knowledge which is always good. I have when asked used 1/2" for the carcass construction but prefer 3/4". I was referring to those cabinets because I am 200+ lbs and I can stand on top or inside a cabinet that I made with rabbit/dado joints and it is strong. I do not like butt joints without dowels,biscuits or something extra added. I use biscuits to connect the rail and stile of the FF but use dado and rabbit to attach the FF to the carcass. I am not crazy about the kreg jig and I absolutely hate nails going through FF into the carcass. I usually have a tendency to over kill in favor of strength but believe me If you use dado/rabbit joints on all sides of the carcass construction 1/2" is allot stronger then you think and 3/4" is just crazy strong. I don't do production work or maybe I would like butt joints and kreg jigs more.

If someone never leaves room for learning something new then they should just quit all together.

__________________
Semper Fi
Richard

Once A Marine Always A Marine.

Some choose to study history, but Marines choose to create history.