Best way to attach a cabinet top - Woodworking Talk

Recruiter · 08-18-2009, 08:47 PM

I am in the process of building an entertainment center. The cabinet is 26" tall and 48" wide. I am actually 3/4 finished, and it dawned on me, there are many ways to attach the top, but which way would be best for this project. The top has a 1" x 2 1/2" edging on 3 sides, surrounding 3/4" red oak ply. The sides are stile and rail, with a flat panel, which goes from the floor to the top. The front shows a 3/4" stretcher, under the top, under which the drawers and cabinet glass doors fit.
I can screw it to the stretchers, then cap the screw holes with wooden plugs to match. That doesn't allow for much wood movement, however. It also doesn't fasten the ends down.
I can use small angle irons or corner fasteners, inside the cabinet. That doesn't appeal, aethestically.
I have even had suggested to me, to use the system that is often used with particleboard and Masonite furniture, where you have the pins and cams, that allow for breaking down the furniture. Also not ideal.
So, what is the best way to attach a top, on a piece of furniture?

jraksdhs · 08-18-2009, 09:05 PM

I'd use pocket screws. Once you drill for the pocket elongate the holes with a slightly larger bit to allow the top to move.

jraks

Recruiter · 08-19-2009, 09:22 AM

Thanks for the advice. I don't currently have a pocket hole jig. This gives me the perfect excuse to get one.

cabinetman · 08-19-2009, 09:58 AM

If the top is plywood, you don't have to be concerned with movement issues. Usually, the top is screwed from beneath through the rails, or a cleat attached to the top inside of the rails, and/or at the corners. If you don't have the room for cleats, you could just use a simple small angle brackets.

I wouldn't use pocket screws.

mmwood_1 · 08-19-2009, 12:56 PM

I second cabinetman's use of cleats and comment on movement. A 3/4" x 3/4" cleat (or a little smaller) along the underside would provide a way to secure the top without visible screws, etc. My next choice would be to countersink screws from the top and plug them with matching-grain plugs. I don't use pocket screws, myself, and don't really understand the obsession with them by so many people.

cabinetman · 08-19-2009, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmwood_1

I second cabinetman's use of cleats and comment on movement. A 3/4" x 3/4" cleat (or a little smaller) along the underside would provide a way to secure the top without visible screws, etc. My next choice would be to countersink screws from the top and plug them with matching-grain plugs. I don't use pocket screws, myself, and don't really understand the obsession with them by so many people.

I guess if the money is spent on some type of jig it's common to be obsessed with it. Someone gave me a jig years ago, I think it was for my 150th birthday or something. I think I used it once to try it out. Waaay before they came out, the method of nailing or screwing at an angle was used when needed, and even then it was an "only resort" type of fastening. We called it "toe nailing" or "toe screwing".

Yeah, you guessed it...before the biscuit joiner...there were splines. I think they are still called that.

Recruiter · 08-19-2009, 02:52 PM

I can see that the cleat would be more preferable, in this case, to attach the top to the side panels. It would have a more "furniture" look to it. In this case, I think screwing from the underside of the stretcher, into the top, and plugging with face grained plugs to match, would be the better move. This seems to be the way that would show the least, under inspection. (It seems every time I do a furniture project, all my friends want to inspect it (and find my mistakes)). That's OK, at least I know they can't do as well as I have!! Thanks, its helped a lot.

rrbrown · 08-19-2009, 06:41 PM

I usually put 3/4" thick triangles in each corner glue and brad nail it to hold while drying. you can then put the top on and put screws from underneath threw the corner blocks and into the top. If you need to you can put a 3/4" x 3" strip from front to back and do the same thing with the screws.

The Everyman Show · 08-19-2009, 07:02 PM

Recruiter - Rockler sell a bracket called a Desk Top Fastener for $3.00 for a pack of 8 of them. It is designed for exactly what you are looking to do and very little of the bracket is seen. You can even paint them and the screw heads close to the color of your project wood color. I'm sure your local Woodcraft or Home Depot might have a variation that would be close. You can certainly use a wooden cleat as has been suggested but you will still see the screw heads if you didn't plug them - but what if you ever have to remove the top in the future?.

http://www.rockler.com/product.cfm?p...Select=Details

cabinetman · 08-19-2009, 07:38 PM

AFIK, wood or plywood tops are not screwed down through the top and then the hole plugged. I would never, never, never ever do that.

Recruiter · 08-20-2009, 03:23 PM

In order to clarify the cabinet- I have resized some of the dimensions, on the entertainment center that appeared in the Oct '08 of Fine Woodworking. In that issue, you will notice there is no face framing to the cabinet. The only things visible from the front, are the 3/4" (capped) bottom shelf, a 3/4" edge on the stretcher on top, and the 1 1/2" side rails, concealing 2-3/4" layers of wood.

The Desktop fasteners appear to be a good option, as does the cleat. These would be what I'd use on the sides. I think simply screwing through the front and back stretchers, and capping the counterbored holes, may be my best option for the front and back.

mmwood_1 · 08-20-2009, 08:17 PM

[quote=cabinetman;91847]AFIK, wood or plywood tops are not screwed down through the top and then the hole plugged. I would never, never, never ever do that.

Cabinetman,
You obviously feel very strongly about this. What makes this method so abhorrent to you?

cabinetman · 08-20-2009, 09:19 PM

[quote=mmwood_1;91999]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cabinetman

AFIK, wood or plywood tops are not screwed down through the top and then the hole plugged. I would never, never, never ever do that.

Cabinetman,
You obviously feel very strongly about this. What makes this method so abhorrent to you?

If the discussion is about drilling through the top of the top (where it's visible), and then putting in a screw down through the top into a cleat below the top, and then plugging the hole, it would be a travesty. I would not under any condition do that. I would make upper rails that tied the sides/dividers together, and screw up from below into the top. That's what a craftsman would do.

What makes an abhorrent method is being able to see the plugs.

rrbrown · 08-20-2009, 09:42 PM

I think someone is pushing your button Cabinetman.

scribbles · 08-21-2009, 12:46 AM

screw through the top and just puddy the hole. you can stain the putty

Recruiter · 08-21-2009, 10:04 AM

I, honestly, never use putty. I will always make up my own, using sawdust and hide glue, to match the wood I'm working with. The only time putty is used, is to cover nail holes on moldings. Otherwise, if you need putty, you did something wrong!

cabinetman · 08-21-2009, 11:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Recruiter

I, honestly, never use putty. I will always make up my own, using sawdust and hide glue, to match the wood I'm working with. The only time putty is used, is to cover nail holes on moldings. Otherwise, if you need putty, you did something wrong!

Save your sawdust and glue. How about a hex head galvanized lag bolt with a washer. It'll give it that "attached" look.

rrbrown · 08-21-2009, 05:21 PM

kind of the industrial look.

phinds · 08-21-2009, 08:35 PM

I have to agree w/ cabinetman ... drilling through the top is not called "joinery" it is called "butchery" !

Paul

scribbles · 08-21-2009, 08:52 PM

that is true, my bad, just nail the piss out of it

second thought staples may hold better.