What an introduction to this site! - Woodworking Talk

wes · 10-28-2009, 05:39 PM

Hello all.

I'm Wes and I own Mason's Millwork in central Mississippi. I build custom cabinets for the most part but also make molding, flooring and the occasional sign.

I have been in the woodworking business for about 7 years now full time. I started out with just a table saw but I have added tools with every job through the years.

I talked my wife into letting me buy a Shopbot cnc and I found a need for mdf door software so I wrote door a program which I sold worldwide in 2003-4. That's how I ended up with the doorbot website.

I've had 5 cnc machines over the past 7 years. The last one I designed and built at my brother's machine shop. He is a jig and fixture man for GE aviation so he has all of the tools. I love my cnc machine. It turned a hobby into a business.

I have a 2700 sq ft shop that I am still working on. I hope to build a 5000-6000 sq ft shop if the economy ever turns around since I have plenty of land to build on.

Oh, my first post here was about helping someone who is building cabinets. I was flamed on for having a cnc machine. What gives? Is this site about woodworking or is it about deriding someone else's tools and ability?

NKYDarrell · 10-28-2009, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wes

...
Oh, my first post here was about helping someone who is building cabinets. I was flamed on for having a cnc machine. What gives? Is this site about woodworking or is it about deriding someone else's tools and ability?

Well, I can't speak for the others, but I'd look more at the situation. I don't know how much a CNC machine costs, but I'll bet it isn't cheap and for the average basement workshop. If someone is looking to try and save some money and build their own cabinets instead of buying custom ones, I don't think a CNC is the way to go.

A CNC machine probably is a great choice if someone is looking at going into the business of cabinetmaking, but due to the cost and learning curve, I'd say it probably isn't for most people.

I don't think I was involved in the flaming, but when I give advice, I tend to try and follow the K.I.S.S. method. Mainly because I don't have a lot of money and don't presume that the other guy has wads of cash to blow. Just think harder about the person asking the question and their situation.

Please don't take the flaming too hard. overall, there isn't a lot of it on this forum.

rrich · 10-28-2009, 10:27 PM

Wes,

Water and a duck's back is probably the only answer or advice...

If you had explained how you used a template, shims, a few router bits and several passes at increasing depths to make MDF raised panel doors; somebody would have said, "Jeez you're a pro. Couldn't you buy a ShopBot?"

As I said, water and a duck's back.

Some days it's better to just smile, ignore and move forward.

Tony B · 10-29-2009, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wes

".......Oh, my first post here was about helping someone who is building cabinets. I was flamed on for having a cnc machine. What gives? Is this site about woodworking or is it about deriding someone else's tools and ability?

Welcome aboard Wes. Sorry you were flamed so early on in your joining of this group. Some people on here just love to hear themselves talk so don't take any personal offense as this is not the norm. I wish I had the time and money to get into CNC, it opens a whole new world. I personally think that furniture and cabinetry is an art and skill regardless of how it is done. Many and I repeat many furniture makers don't consider themselves as woodworkers even though they work in wood. They are furniture designers and builders. You seem to have acheived a great deal in 7 years and you have my admiration, I am sure you have a great deal to share with us and I wish I was back in Ms. so I can drive up to your shop and hold you at gunpoint if necessary, until you tought me CNC software.
Anyway, don't be put off by your negative experience and hang in here with us.
I will be looking forward to you filling out a complete profile such as you described your bio above and a photo album of your work.
And again, welcome.

red · 10-29-2009, 08:30 AM

Welcome to the forum.

Red

cabinetman · 10-29-2009, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wes

Oh, my first post here was about helping someone who is building cabinets. I was flamed on for having a cnc machine. What gives? Is this site about woodworking or is it about deriding someone else's tools and ability?

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

This site is about woodworking. Without any ill intent, or personal judgment of your tools or abilities, the reaction to your first post was more of a knee jerk than anything else. Without knowing anything about you or what you do, you came off a bit grandiose IMO. Maybe I'm too matter of fact, but I don't take too much to 'chest pounders'.

A first time poster claiming his way is the only way or the only accurate method, could have worded it in a more subtle less boasting manner. It just wasn't too friendly. If my response was taken as negative or insulting...I apologize.

**Daren** · 10-29-2009, 10:17 AM

Wes, you will find the people here very friendly and helpful. Some times discussions do get off track/heated...but at the end of the day we remain buddies and everyone is welcome.

Streamwinner · 10-29-2009, 10:51 AM

That attitude (regarding CNCs) is pretty much stable around here as I've seen it come up several times. I think there's a "purist" sentiment on this board. With that said, I've also come to know that many people here are very friendly and helpful, so I hope you continue to post so that we can learn from you.

Texas Sawduster · 10-29-2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wes

Hello all.

Oh, my first post here was about helping someone who is building cabinets. I was flamed on for having a cnc machine. What gives? Is this site about woodworking or is it about deriding someone else's tools and ability?

Well, welcome to the site. Being a CNC Programmer and machinist by trade and woodworker by choice, I complement you on your self built CNC Router. If I had a shop with room I to would have one. AINT IT COOL !!!!!

Sorry you got flamed.
Keep up the great work.

top · 10-30-2009, 12:17 AM

Welcome WES from "THE SHOP OF TOP"

wes · 10-30-2009, 08:04 AM

If you would like to see a couple of the cabinet jobs that I have done recently, go to my website www.doorbot.net

I really don't market myself with my website too effectively. I use it primarily to show prospects when I am at their computer. I still have work to do.

There is also a picture of my cnc machine that I built on the front page. Just scroll down.

Gene Howe · 10-30-2009, 09:44 AM

Wes,
I'm a woodworker. YOU are an artist! Beautiful work, my friend.
Gene

toolman Steve · 10-30-2009, 09:58 AM

Welcome this a grate site . Some times we don't thjnk things through before we speak. We try to have fun and learn stuff too.

Tony B · 10-30-2009, 12:12 PM

If you look up directly above the "POST REPLY" button, you will see "User CP". Hit that button and you can edit/add to your profile. Where it says "Edit Signature", you can type in your url and then your website link will appear automatically as part of your signature everytime you post.
I don't know about others, but I put a lot of credability in advise given when I can see the poster's work. Not always, but most of the time.

wfahey · 11-01-2009, 08:24 AM

Wes

I too am new to this forum and I remember reading your first post and thinking "spammer". You wasted no time saying you were in the cabinet business and by the end of the second paragraph you had a link to your website. It wasn't until your very last sentence that you indicated you were new to the site. Your wording was also a bit harsh, saying that the first thing the person MUST do is get SU and so on. Your cabinets are beautiful and you may very well turn out to be one of the biggest contributors to this forum, but in my opinion your initial approach was a huge turn off. I know when I join a new forum, I tend to "lurk" for awhile and get to know the pulse of the forum and not blast in out of nowhere. Forums are communities, take time to get to know your neighbors. You'll have plenty of time to tell them they trimmed the trees all wrong later after you've been there awhile and established some credibility.

In your first post you also mentioned that you didn't care for some other sites due to the drama. Between that first post and then your introduction in this thread, you've managed to stir up some drama here as well.

wes · 11-01-2009, 09:32 AM

To all of you who think that by suggesting that people use a FREE software package is harsh, I'm sorry that I offended you. Sketchup is just another shop tool to me. You don't have to use it but it does give a person the ability to work thoroughly through an idea on "paper" before having to waste wood. I find this useful.

If you like to take large sheets of brown paper out and trace on it and that works for you, good on you. I wish you well. If, on the other hand, you would like the opportunity to try some other way than the "forum" approved approach, then give sketchup a try. You can see a sketchup kitchen on my spam website.

If you truly believe your own words that "forums are communities, take time to get to know your neighbors" then you should follow your own advice and take time to get to know me before accusing me of "blasting" into this community. Furthermore, I "wasted no time saying that I [sic] was in the cabinet business" because, I AM IN THE CABINET BUSINESS! Why would I waste time pussy footing around the facts? Am I supposed to work my way up to telling you what I do? Should I have started out by saying that I whittle sticks first?

Again, try not to get upset because someone came here and suggested that they knew something about woodworking without asking if it was o.k. to do so first! I am a very skilled woodworker and I am proud of my work.

Look at my website. Those kitchens are in the 30k and up range except the paint grade one. If you don't think I have the skill to post here regarding cabinet building, then just come out and say so.

If you think I "stirred up drama" here think again. All I did was offer suggestions on how to make frameless cabinets. I hereby withdraw my offer to help build cabinets.

Thanks to all of the others for the kind words and the private messages. This may well be my last post here. I know that I won't be missed and I won't miss anything either

This site is does not seem to be geared towards the professional woodworker.

woodnthings · 11-01-2009, 11:23 AM

Since this has risen to a level not warranted, let me say that your first response to a fellow looking for advice on a proceedure to build kitchen cabinets was not appropriate for the request. Suggesting a CNR router set up and learning Sketchup is not within everyone's capabilities, budget or learning curve. As I posted:

If you read this Original Post you will see..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ssp2

I have built many woodworking projects and own almost every tool you would need to complete any level of project. However, I have never built any kitchen cabinets and am looking for advice on how to go about building these. I have been told that 3/4" birch plywood is the best for building the carcase but would like some other opinions. I still haven't decided to whether to paint or stain (because I may utilize my existing cabinets which are painted over oak custom cabinets). I would prefer to build custom cabinets with a nice stain but also would like to watch costs. Any suggestions would be appreciated as well as reference to any written materials online or in book form.

Our friend just wants to build some cabinets for his kitchen, he's not going into the business....yet!

So advice should be tempered with the needs of the OP in mind.
He's got a lot of tools, just needs a process.
See this thread: Working in Wood a 3 part process
C Man's advice is great and should serve for others as well. Probably gained from centuries of first hand experience back to the "middle ages"

Lighten up Guys.

bill

Further, your second post, which was also not appropriate, suggested a skill saw and a beer buzz and was removed by administration.

Last, if you want to run off and be insulted by our/my responses, feel free. You were the cause of this "drama" here and it's no wonder you don't last long of these types of forums. We are usually patient, thoughtful and helpful people except when provoked. Your introduction did not tell the whole story and for those of us who have been watching this unfold, garnered undue sympathy. You started this by your responses, and should take the good advice given and learn a lesson. This is not a site exclusively for professional cabinetmakers who are in the business. There are plenty of folks just starting out and others who have a wide range of expertise. If you are looking for a forum for only professional cabinet makers look elsewhere. JMO. bill

wes · 11-01-2009, 11:59 AM

You don't have to buy or know how to use Sketchup in order to SEE how to BUILD cabinets. All that you have to do is download one of their cabinets and LOOK at it. That was my suggestion. Me telling you about my cnc was to tell you that WITHOUT one it was much more difficult.

My terse answers about beer buzz and a pencil only came up AFTER I was flamed, not before.

Where are the professionals here? Where are the people who want a straight answer without having to meet some agenda first? Are there any here? I will go over to the Cabinet Makers Association forum. It costs money to belong there, but they are TRUE professionals who don't get upset by someone trying to help somebody else out.

If you are afraid of the answer, don't ask the question.