I have been building small wood project for a few years and started to try and move onto bigger projects such as tables. I built a square table that has started to crack. I built the table before actually understanding wood movement and attaching the table top properly. I basically made all the rookie mistakes that I could in making the table. I pocket screwed the top together and screwed it down the base. I understand that if I attach a breadboard I have to do so in a manner to let the wood be able to move. My question I had was the table top design I made. I like the look of the design, but I was wondering if there was any way to make this design while still allowing for wood movement or if it is a lost cause design. Thank you
There really isn't a good way to make that table unless you made it out of plywood and made the design with veneer. The center part if you had made a tongue and groove joint and not glued it to the surrounding frame it wouldn't have cracked however as the wood dried and shrunk gaps in the joints would appear on one or both ends.
You can keep the same design with one change. You must extend the "breadboard ends" all the way across and not frame it in. You can have different shades or types of wood so it looks like a perimeter frame, but the bread board ends will allow the glued up planks to move.
A design like that you could make with similar construction to a raised panel door. You'd have to have a small gap between the center and edge pieces, but still doable
Thank you guys for the replies! With the raised panel design if I left a small gap, there's chance it could just become a little bigger gap wouldn't it? I just didnt know if the gap would have to be big enough that it might look bad eventually or if it might end up looking ok and usable. If I tried to epoxy the gap in it right now I would just be setting myself up for more problems down the road when the wood swells back up correct?
Probably in a year or two you would have a gap around 1/16". In ten years the gap would probably be 1/8". In thirty years the gap would probably be 1/4". It's just going to keep shrinking. The top isn't that big of a project to make. If you made the top easily removable you could just make yourself a new top from time to time as needed.
My best bet sounds like just to make a different style. It is actually a table I built for a friend so I won't want to have to redo it for them later on. The main reason I was wanting to see if this style was possible is because they don't seem to want a different style. But hopefully the new one will grow on them!
You don't need a different style like a raised panel!
You have a simple table top which should have bread board ends. To make that table look like it's a perimeter frame as your design shows, just stain the outermost boards a different color OR use a different wood species. Do not run the outermost boards past the breadboard ends, but stop them the same as the table planks.
A raised panel with gaps is NOT what I would use for a table top for the obvious reason of collecting food particles.
I wasn't going to make the panel style for the same reasons you listed. I was going to end up making a simple breadboard end like the picture you showed earlier. The stain on the outside piece makes more sense now the second time you told me. I really like that idea. Would you recommend staining the breadboard and outside plank different colors to look like a frame or just the outside planks? Thanks
Woodenthings, From all the pics you shown I don't see anywhere for the wood to move, that joinery and gluing WILL NOT handle any major MC changes. The joints or top will warp, twist or fail. Any wood cross grained has to have a place to move, if the breadboard went all the way across the end grains and floated it would be fine. AS the pics shows the short breadboard(long grain) is locked between the crossgrain which will move width wise and crack top somewhere if MC goes down and shrinks.
Actually after relooking at yours and his pics yours is the same basic design as his except his is shorter long grained and yours is longer long grained (length wise) BUT the same locked up layout.
That is a very nice piece! Awesome look! I also noticed the smaller tables tops you made on the thread you linked had the same board layout as my table. Did wood movement become an issue with the smaller piece and that type of wood?
What I have learned is that wood moves when it dries as the cells loose their moisture and depending on where in the log the wood was cut, it may also cup or warp. After it's milled it will move seasonally as the humidity in the environment changes ... summer is different that winter in most homes. This seasonal movement is usually confined to the width.
The veneer on plywood won't move like solid wood. I advised my buddy that it may shrink at the joints, but that's what he wanted, so I went ahead. So far there are no complaints after 3 years.....
The veneer on plywood won't move like solid wood. I advised my buddy that it may shrink at the joints, but that's what he wanted, so I went ahead. So far there are no complaints after 3 years.....
That's a kinda important detail you left out in your post since OP request on solid wood top....plywood and veneer....BUT as you said still a possibility of joint failure....IT is a pretty table.
To do a solid top in the OP's design it does need some float as a raise panel would float....yes the little space/gap is not as attractive but prevents float issues.
The original design is destined to fail. No matter what you use to fasten it, it won't stop the wood from moving if there is a change in moisture content. Solid wood will always show some sort of movement over time, bread boarding it will make the movement more obvious. Look @ the Greene and Greene dining table from the Gamble house for an idea of how to keep the movement from looking like a joint failure. gamblehouse.org/interior
As a woodworker you should make a pilgrimage to that 1908 house. Some of the original furnishings are still in place, the detailing is superb. Pasadena, CA.
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