Unpolished teak door storage - Help needed. - Page 2 - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum

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post #21 of 35 Old 05-02-2016, 11:35 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Steve Neul View Post
In the first picture #1 is mainly a poor glue joint on the panel. It may have had some glue around the edges pull it apart but the joint was just bad. Teak is a little more difficult to glue together because of the natural oils than other woods. Who ever joined the wood either the parts didn't fit together well or they failed to clean the natural oil off before gluing. Generally most of us that glue teak will clean the edges of the wood with acetone prior to gluing it. If the panel had split because it was glued into the frame the panel would have broken somewhere other than the joint.

I don't know if it's the photography but I'm seeing an uneven edge of the panel in #2. It looks like they glued wood for the panel and never trimmed it to it's finished length before machining the edge of it. This would inherently make the panel irregular in shape and possibly too big or at least out of square. If the panel then is too big for the opening it's in, it doesn't allow the wood to expand and therefore pushes the frame apart which I'm seeing in #3.

The other pictures with the split stiles it just looks like a poor choice of wood for those parts. It's normal for wood to split on the ends as it dries and when you build with it you are suppose to cut these ends off. All and all it looks like poorly made doors. The doors with the split stiles you might be able to repair. Mix some exterior resin glue and spread it over the split and rub it into the crack with your thumb. It takes a bit of patience but you can keep adding glue and rubbing it in until it comes out the other side. Then clamp the door with a pipe clamp and squeeze the glue out. Since teak is soft, pad the edges to prevent the clamps from making marks on the edges of the door. The doors with the joints pushed apart and ones with the bad joints in the panels there's not a lot you can do with those. The panels you can't clamp them to properly pull them together and the failed joints the wood is sealed with the old glue and anyway what ever caused them to come apart would just push it apart again. Rather than being in a position of having to warranty those doors I would attempt to sell them at cost on a "As is basis" somewhere other than your business so people didn't think all of your doors would do this.

At the end of the day I for sure would look for a different manufacturer. These people take too many shortcuts.
Thank you very much Steve! Almost all the problems related to warping, cracking and splitting is caused because they are poorly manufactured door not mainly because of the inadequate seasoning i guess and Yes i have changed the manufacturer the day i realized i was cheated. At no cost these doors will be sold to any costumers by fixing or repairing them, it would put mine and my businesses reputation at stake.

Like Leo G said will wrapping the doors in plastic decrease the chances of splitting and warping?
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post #22 of 35 Old 05-02-2016, 11:49 AM Thread Starter
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I dont know if it's the camera or lighting but this wood seems to have come from second growth trees and were very young and possibly mixed in with sap wood from older trees. Quality teak is a reddish brown color very similar to mahogany. In the last photo in Post #18, about the 5th board from the bottom, you can tell this board cam from near the center of the tree. It should have been very dark.
Lots of reasons can account for the splits.
I don't think working on these doors will help much because you wont know if future defects will still show up as the wood keeps acclimatizing unless you hang on to them for several months. Selling these doors to unsuspecting customers can cost you your business.
My advise is sell them advertised "As is" and get whatever you can from them and be done with it.

Thanks Tony, the wood like almost the same as it is in the picture as you said i too had doubt that they were juvenile, im not looking forward to work on these doors i will sell them as is when contractor or a builder who comes looking for a cheaper alternative comes by.

I cannot afford making the same mistake again, how could i make sure that the wood supplied are of good quality?
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post #23 of 35 Old 05-02-2016, 11:52 AM
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I don't see how wrapping the doors in plastic unless it was completely airtight would help. I think it also would have had to be wrapped in Indonesia before it was shipped. This would have helped maintain the moisture content from where it was manufactured however when someone unwrapped it to use it then the problems would arise in the hands of the customer.
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post #24 of 35 Old 05-02-2016, 12:13 PM Thread Starter
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I don't see how wrapping the doors in plastic unless it was completely airtight would help. I think it also would have had to be wrapped in Indonesia before it was shipped. This would have helped maintain the moisture content from where it was manufactured however when someone unwrapped it to use it then the problems would arise in the hands of the customer.
But once its Kiln dried to MC over here everything will be alright i guess.Wrapping them in plastic because when unfinished wood product is exposed to humidity changes can be rapid and cause splitting and warping. Once the customer gets the doors they will finish them upon unwrapping the doors once finished doors react slowly to the moisture change and the damage will be very very minimal i suppose,This is how i understood things work.

My new manufacturer has send me a sample of the door they are making. Could you please tell me how i could identify if its good or not? Ill post some pictures he shared.




This is the final result that i am looking for.
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post #25 of 35 Old 05-02-2016, 12:23 PM
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..........I cannot afford making the same mistake again, how could i make sure that the wood supplied are of good quality?
That is a hard question to answer.
I think my first step would be to find out as much as possible about the reputation of the new manufacturer. After that, either you or a hired agent can inspect the doors before they leave the factory. Check moisture content, feel to make sure the panels are floating and then a close visual inspection. I'm sure that you will be getting new growth Teak unless you are paying VERY premium price for the old growth stuff. There is nothing wrong with the new growth if properly mined, it is just a lesser quality but with a lesser price. This in itself does not make it a crappy product. A lumber inspection and the manufacturers reputation will tell a lot about that.

I am not familiar with shipping so I dont know the proper way to ship. Someone else on here may be able to help with that one. The USA has a vast land mass with greatly different environmental conditions and climates. Yet, lumber and furniture is shipped from humid areas to dry areas and vice verse all of the time. I have never seen a label that stated for Miami, Fl or similar climate so I would assume that if proper kiln dried and properly shipped all should be OK IF a decent quality lumber was used.

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post #26 of 35 Old 05-02-2016, 12:42 PM Thread Starter
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That is a hard question to answer.
I think my first step would be to find out as much as possible about the reputation of the new manufacturer. After that, either you or a hired agent can inspect the doors before they leave the factory. Check moisture content, feel to make sure the panels are floating and then a close visual inspection. I'm sure that you will be getting new growth Teak unless you are paying VERY premium price for the old growth stuff. There is nothing wrong with the new growth if properly mined, it is just a lesser quality but with a lesser price. This in itself does not make it a crappy product. A lumber inspection and the manufacturers reputation will tell a lot about that.

I am not familiar with shipping so I dont know the proper way to ship. Someone else on here may be able to help with that one. The USA has a vast land mass with greatly different environmental conditions and climates. Yet, lumber and furniture is shipped from humid areas to dry areas and vice verse all of the time. I have never seen a label that stated for Miami, Fl or similar climate so I would assume that if proper kiln dried and properly shipped all should be OK IF a decent quality lumber was used.
I tried to gather as much as information i could gather about the new seller, the real problem is I am only 24 and have only a very few contacts in indonesia it was them who found out this new manufacturer. This time i am personally going over there to make sure everything that is shipped is in perfect condition.

How is the new grown teak a lesser quality one compared to old grown one?
What is the major difference between them?
How can i identify new from old ones?
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post #27 of 35 Old 05-02-2016, 01:02 PM
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But once its Kiln dried to MC over here everything will be alright i guess.Wrapping them in plastic because when unfinished wood product is exposed to humidity changes can be rapid and cause splitting and warping. Once the customer gets the doors they will finish them upon unwrapping the doors once finished doors react slowly to the moisture change and the damage will be very very minimal i suppose,This is how i understood things work.

My new manufacturer has send me a sample of the door they are making. Could you please tell me how i could identify if its good or not? Ill post some pictures he shared.




This is the final result that i am looking for.
This look can only be achieved with veneer. You can't glue up wood like that and insert a piece of solid wood perpendicular to the grain direction of the face. It won't allow the wood to shrink and the door will split. It is an absolute certainty the wood will shrink, it's just a matter of how much and how soon. Running the grain horizontal for an 80" width is really asking for it.

As far as the plastic, wood is fickled, it doesn't like being wrapped up to where it can't breathe. Plastic can cause as much problems as leaving the plastic off. Covering it with a plastic coating like a varnish is a little different. It covers it so completely getting into the pores of the wood it does help stabilize it. Still wood would prefer to stay in the same climate that it was turned into a product. I inherited and antique table that was over 100 years old and except for the crazed finish was in perfect condition. I moved the table from a moister climate to Texas and within six months the top of the table started splitting. I ended up having to cut the top apart and cut out the split wood and use one of the leaves as replacement wood.
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post #28 of 35 Old 05-02-2016, 04:42 PM
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....... How is the new grown teak a lesser quality one compared to old grown one?
The old growth trees were 'found' and not planted like the new growth. The new growth trees are cut young and I'm sure are fed nutrients to make them grow faster. The lumber from the new trees is not as dense and subsequently not as weather resistant, not as strong and also not as attractive. On the other hand, the new growth trees are MUCH, MUCH cheaper than the old ones. This makes it more available and thus the new teak furniture is mostly from the new growth. The name "teak" is a crowd pleaser living off an old reputation and so easily marketed and most of the buying public is not aware of this. Tony B

How can i identify new from old ones?
The old growth heartwood is a dark brownish red color. The new growth is a light brown like the ones in the photos you posted. There is a real significance in weight between the two. The old growth will not float in water, it will sink to the bottom, I'm not sure about the new stuff. It will be difficult for you to pick up an old growth full size door. Old growth teak is really heavy. Tony B.....
There is nothing wrong with new growth teak, it's just not the same as old growth. In your recent experience, the problem was a drying problem and possibly a gluing and even a shipping problem as well.
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post #29 of 35 Old 05-03-2016, 02:34 AM Thread Starter
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There is nothing wrong with new growth teak, it's just not the same as old growth. In your recent experience, the problem was a drying problem and possibly a gluing and even a shipping problem as well.
Thank you very much for the information provided, what kind of glue is best for wood? i heard Araldite is good and was thinking about providing them to the manufacturer.
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post #30 of 35 Old 05-03-2016, 08:06 AM
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I've never heard of Araldite before but it's an epoxy glue. Epoxy is better suited for non-porous items. Anyway Araldite is advertised as a 5 min epoxy which wouldn't give you enough open time for woodworking. There are slow drying epoxy glues if you wished to use that adhesive. For wood I would use wood glue on interior doors and a resin glue on exterior doors. When I worked for a custom door company we used a lot of Weldwood plastic resin glue. The only problem I've ever had with it is, it was difficult to keep humidity away from it. It comes as a dry powder you mix with water and in very damp weather it would harden in the container.
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post #31 of 35 Old 05-03-2016, 12:07 PM Thread Starter
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I've never heard of Araldite before but it's an epoxy glue. Epoxy is better suited for non-porous items. Anyway Araldite is advertised as a 5 min epoxy which wouldn't give you enough open time for woodworking. There are slow drying epoxy glues if you wished to use that adhesive. For wood I would use wood glue on interior doors and a resin glue on exterior doors. When I worked for a custom door company we used a lot of Weldwood plastic resin glue. The only problem I've ever had with it is, it was difficult to keep humidity away from it. It comes as a dry powder you mix with water and in very damp weather it would harden in the container.
I did some research on the glues, by wood glue i guess you meant PVA(polyvinyl acetate) and weld wood plastic resin must be polyurethane/gorilla glue. What would happen if i use exterior glue for interior gluing?
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post #32 of 35 Old 05-03-2016, 11:12 PM
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I did some research on the glues, by wood glue i guess you meant PVA(polyvinyl acetate) and weld wood plastic resin must be polyurethane/gorilla glue. What would happen if i use exterior glue for interior gluing?
The polyurethane/gorilla glue is a completely different adhesive than plastic resin glue. Personally I don't think much of gorilla glue and only use it on something not structural. It's also very nasty to work with. It foams up out of the joint and gets on everything. It's more similar to "Great Stuff" expansion foam used for insulation.

Yes wood glue is PVA glue. The only thing it would hurt using an exterior glue on an interior door is it costs more.
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post #33 of 35 Old 05-04-2016, 01:44 AM Thread Starter
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The polyurethane/gorilla glue is a completely different adhesive than plastic resin glue. Personally I don't think much of gorilla glue and only use it on something not structural. It's also very nasty to work with. It foams up out of the joint and gets on everything. It's more similar to "Great Stuff" expansion foam used for insulation.

Yes wood glue is PVA glue. The only thing it would hurt using an exterior glue on an interior door is it costs more.
What is my next best option if i couldn't find plastic resin glue? PVA glue is available in the market.

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post #34 of 35 Old 05-04-2016, 07:36 AM
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What is my next best option if i couldn't find plastic resin glue? PVA glue is available in the market.

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You could use a glue such as Titebond III. The brand isn't so important, just that it is an exterior glue.
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post #35 of 35 Old 05-05-2016, 01:04 AM Thread Starter
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You could use a glue such as Titebond III. The brand isn't so important, just that it is an exterior glue.
Thank You for the information's Steve.

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