Need translation of German timber framing term - Woodworking Talk

kmetzger · 09-13-2009, 08:34 PM

Hello all – I’m a woodworker and I also translate texts from German to English. An unfamiliar German term related to timber framing has come up, and I’d like to ask you if you have any idea what the English term would be.
In German, the term is Sprungmaß or “measuring over the wood”. The definition is: “this measurement gives the distance between two bearing timbers (e.g. rafters, beams, joists). It is measured from one edge of the beam over the beam to the same edge of the next beam. The reason for measuring over the beam is that the dimensions of the beam are often inexact.

Thanks in advance for your ideas.
Kim Metzger

http://tinyurl.com/cfm245

edp · 09-14-2009, 04:02 PM

this would be similar to the term "Center to Center" referring to the center lines of components that may have differing dimensions.

Ed

Billy De · 09-14-2009, 04:24 PM

Hi Kim I think you are confusing your self with technical terminology,
to put it simple if the sprung mass is 60cm the English term you are looking for is 60cm on centers.More normally said as 60cm OC.
Just to explain whats going on, when any Carpenter checks his lay out he never measures the beams from center to center but places his tape on one edge of the beam and goes to the same edge on the next beam and this will give him the measurement on centers.
Not to confuse you but in the real world a German speaking Carpenter would call it just the same way a English speaking Carpenter IE "out to in" and in German "aussen zu innen. Hope this helps billy

Billy De · 09-14-2009, 04:40 PM

Sorry ED your post was not there when I started to type with my two fingers LOL. billy

kmetzger · 09-14-2009, 09:13 PM

Thanks a lot, Ed and Billy. I see your point. And I found
this online too.

Where there are stretches of wall between windows and doors
over four feet in length, the studding will need to be
spaced 16 inches between centres, or 16 inches from the inside of one stud to the
outside of the next, which, it will readily be understood,
is the same thing. Carpenters call this spacing from
"in to out," and follow it for joists, studding and rafters. http://www.archive.org/stream/howtof...irich_djvu.txt

**TexasTimbers** · 09-15-2009, 01:32 PM

Kim, Billy and Ed are right, and I'm not contradicting them but adding to... .

Since you are being asked to give this term a specific definition I think it is important for you to understand they are not inherently the same, although both methods are generically similar in some ways. I don't know what the term means, but I doubt the Zimmerman's would lump edge to edge with on-center into one difinition.

Among other things, these are two common layout methods which an experience craftsman can employ to make for a more accurate and expedient layout. But a craftsman has the experience to keep them separate in his head and for more reasons than I can or will try to enumerate. I bet Billy or Ed have never done it, but I have run a whole wall before using edge to edge and failed to consider intermediate framing members, where the plans called for a re-hang of the tape so to speak.

In some frames the OC measurements will not remain linear throughout the whole run of the wall. The plans (if there are any) may call for OC runs of the same, or even dissimlar sized framing members whether intermediate, main, or stud wall members or any mix thereof. IOW OC and edge to edge rarely remain the same for any length of time. But of course sometimes they do, yet even when they do they are still two distinctly separate things and may or may not have other ramiifcations within the frame structure, and in more ways than just this simple consideration.

I am just a hack timber framer at best, so I'm not trying to impress you as some kind of authority on the matter. I just thought that since you are responsible for translating a term, which is in a real sense 'creating" a word that will be taken at face value by others who may be apprentices in a new trade, then you should first have it crystal clear in your own mind's eye that "on center" and "edge to edge", though they can be and are sometimes used interchangably, even when referred to and used as one they are still two distinctly different animals, not just in terms of laying out a frame.