pocket hole - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum

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post #1 of 26 Old 04-18-2011, 12:27 AM Thread Starter
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pocket hole

dumb question. is there a way to do something like a pocket hold without the Kreg jig? Dont wanna spend over $100 for a jig. i am trying to make things more professional lookin and hide as many fasteners as possible.
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post #2 of 26 Old 04-18-2011, 01:13 AM
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You could try the smaller ones. They make one for about $20, $40 etc. each one has its benefits. Once you use it.. You will probably want to get the big one too. Makes things pretty easy.

Other option is to just learn how to join without fasteners.
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post #3 of 26 Old 04-18-2011, 01:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidGAOutdoor View Post
dumb question. is there a way to do something like a pocket hold without the Kreg jig? Dont wanna spend over $100 for a jig. i am trying to make things more professional lookin and hide as many fasteners as possible.

Kreg isn't the only one making pocket hole jigs. General tool has one, maybe not as sophisticated but they carry them at Home Depot, about half the cost if I remember right. I've also seen shop made jigs around for putting them in with a router.
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post #4 of 26 Old 04-18-2011, 01:59 AM
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They have smaller options like mentioned above.
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post #5 of 26 Old 04-18-2011, 02:09 AM
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I have a small single barrel Kreg that I paid 15 for. It lives in my nail apron.Clamps on with a padded vice grip.

Mick

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post #6 of 26 Old 04-18-2011, 03:20 AM
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Me too, paid GP Pds 11, would be $15 in us.
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post #7 of 26 Old 04-18-2011, 08:02 AM
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Even the basic $20 Kreg jigs work well. The $40 version should work great for you.
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post #8 of 26 Old 04-18-2011, 08:04 AM
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here ya go.
http://woodgears.ca/shop-tricks/pocket-hole.html
HTH

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post #9 of 26 Old 04-18-2011, 08:55 PM
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post #10 of 26 Old 04-30-2011, 06:18 AM
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It is too smaller. I also have one jig that i have gotten in only $35. It is also working nicely and not having any fault till now.

Check for Home and Gardening pergola plans or various plans for pergola.
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post #11 of 26 Old 04-30-2011, 07:20 AM
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Other option is to just learn how to join without fasteners.
+1. What's wrong with traditional joinery. Woodworking and cabinetmaking seems to be a dieing craft. Traditional joinery has been used for hundreds of years before any alternative came onto the market. There's always something new on the market to make things better and faster. I don't agree that the pocket system is better. In fact, I think it's junk joinery. Reminds me of the quick knock down imported products.

The joint still exists as basically a butt joint (the weakest of joints), held with a screw at an angle. If the screw did its thing being straight, it would have better holding power, and would account for less "pulling toward the angle". I've used pocket screws to just try them out. I don't agree that it's faster. If you can set up for joinery, a proper glue joint is more predictable without the hassle and without the unsightly holes that are left.

So, hole covers can be made, and that is an obvious attempt to cover up. I guess it's obvious I don't like them. My feelings are that woodworking forums can be a learning platform for an age old craft. There has to be contrasting points of view. Maybe mine is the voice of reason. I would think I've failed in whatever suggestions were made if they incorporated makeshift procedures just to get by.

If the planning for the project takes its initial steps, that is to plan the project and designate rabbets and dadoes, and any joinery methods, the setup is quick and the results show. It's hard to believe that a hobbyist has to have what is thought of as a "quick" assembly method.

The pocket screw idea is not a new one. Before the jigs and special screws went on the market, similar methods were used and they were called "toe screwing" or "toe nailing". Using trim screws is still a popular method where it may be necessary. You can barely see a hole. It's about the size of an 8d finish nail head.

If you decide to learn woodworking do a little assembly research into "blind screwing", or "blind nailing". Some of the refined techniques don't ever get mentioned until discussions about "fast" and "easy" are brought up.

The jig system is another way to have you spend money thinking that it's worth the money because it's easier, better, and faster. What I hear is that the users are elated that there is an alternative...why not use it.

I've had this discussion with other shop owners, and would bet that I could machine the parts and assemble as fast or faster than using pocket screws. However you want to join your work is entirely up to you. If you use twine, tie wraps, or 16d nails, it's your decision. If you are using pocket screws, ask yourself if its because they are better than traditional joinery.








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post #12 of 26 Old 04-30-2011, 10:24 AM
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i was probably with you cman 'til this "... and would bet that I could machine the parts and assemble as fast or faster than using pocket screws" i'd take you up on that one. the pocket hole system changed frace frame process greatly. if you make many cabinets with face frames, they are an improvement in time to any other joinery i know.
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post #13 of 26 Old 04-30-2011, 10:39 AM
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i was probably with you cman 'til this "... and would bet that I could machine the parts and assemble as fast or faster than using pocket screws" i'd take you up on that one. the pocket hole system changed frace frame process greatly. if you make many cabinets with face frames, they are an improvement in time to any other joinery i know.
Since doors cover most of the front make frameless cabinets. You'll save time and materials costs.








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post #14 of 26 Old 04-30-2011, 11:27 AM
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You do you eve need a jig?

I have had a few (and the emphasis is on few) times that I wanted to pocket screw something. As I did not have a jig and did not want to go out and purchases one I did the job the old fashioned way; I just manually held the drill at the angle I wanted.

George
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post #15 of 26 Old 04-30-2011, 11:30 PM
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You do you eve need a jig?

I have had a few (and the emphasis is on few) times that I wanted to pocket screw something. As I did not have a jig and did not want to go out and purchases one I did the job the old fashioned way; I just manually held the drill at the angle I wanted.

George
The first pocket holes I did was with a power drill on a cheep stand that made usable as a small drill press.
While I value Cabinetman's opinion, I do not believe that just because a tool, jig or technique wasn't in use a hundred years ago, doesn't mean you are any less of a wood worker for using it.

Last edited by mveach; 04-30-2011 at 11:31 PM. Reason: spelling
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post #16 of 26 Old 05-01-2011, 08:40 AM
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In tech at school we don't have pocket hole jigs, so I improvise by taking a small 3/16" bit and drilling through the piece, then taking a bigger bit the size of the screw head, and drilling down to recess it below the surface. While drilling the bigger hole I'll start perpendicular and then as I'm drilling, move the bit at the angle desired to set the screw into the other board. I typically measure 1 1/2" from the front of the board to the center of my bit. Not the most practical, but it works for the time being when I don't bring my Kreg jig into school.
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post #17 of 26 Old 05-01-2011, 09:21 AM
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The first pocket holes I did was with a power drill on a cheep stand that made usable as a small drill press.
While I value Cabinetman's opinion, I do not believe that just because a tool, jig or technique wasn't in use a hundred years ago, doesn't mean you are any less of a wood worker for using it.
I didn't suggest that premise. What was done a hundred years ago is and can still be done today, without the cost of a jig, or special screws. Whether using the jig makes one feel less of a woodworker, is best left to self evaluation.








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post #18 of 26 Old 05-02-2011, 12:11 AM
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I didn't suggest that premise. What was done a hundred years ago is and can still be done today, without the cost of a jig, or special screws. Whether using the jig makes one feel less of a woodworker, is best left to self evaluation.








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Sorry for the misinterpretation of your post.
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post #19 of 26 Old 05-05-2011, 08:36 AM
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The Custom Cabinet Industry has spoiled us, face frames face-glued and nailed to a particle board carcase....
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post #20 of 26 Old 11-01-2011, 10:48 PM
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I agree with cabinet man that pocket holes are not all they're cracked up to be but they can be a very good method for certain applications. I also agree that they are actually not that strong regardless of what Kreg says but they are strong enough if you use glue in the joints as well. I found myself in a spot where I had a few different things that I thought would be easiest with pocket holes and ended out giving in and spending the $100 on the Kreg jig after trying to find an alternate. The main reason I thought it was worth it was how simple to adjust and self explanatory the Kreg jig is compared to other jigs. Let it be know that it is absolutely ridiculous that Kreg asks $100 for a drill bit a square driver some screws and a piece of blue plastic but although over priced, it is a very good jig. Basically my feeling is that unless you hardly ever use pocket holes its worth it, it may be $100, but its $100 dollars for something that you can use for as long as you live. All in all, I think pocket holes are preferable for SOME applications just like every joint has its better uses, I'm just against using them where something else would be better such as the popular trend of using them in place of a mortise+tenon for fastening an apron to a table leg.
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