ecologito

Hi,

I know with this I might stir the pot but I want some logical and well funded opinions.

I am a naturalist and am aware of the impact of human activity. Most of the time people follow patterns because that is how they've done it for ever or is the easiest way to do things.

One example is the use of palm oil on a large amount of foods. There are lots of third world countries ( like Sumatra and Borneo) that are killing orangutans and their habitats to exploit and produce palm oil.

I'd like to know what is the opinion of wood workers about exotic woods that sometimes is hard to find out if they have been harvested legally or not. What is our responsibility or should be?

Just a thought.

PS I am loving learning about woodworking.

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Daren

MOST woodworkers would be amazed at the "exotics" growing on their own block. (the vast percentage of ornamentals/urban trees are not native , some are even considered "invasive species" )
The harvest is legal...but the lack utilization is on the verge of criminal. A guy could wring his hands about what is going on 2000 miles away in forestry, or look a little closer to home. I am not an environmentalist, just a realist, but the mantra seems to be "Think globally, act locally". What is more local than your home town ? Urban logging (Google search it). I will now step off my soapbox and let more informed people on the subject chime in.

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TexasTimbers

Let's start here. What makes you a naturalist?

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Flame Box Elder

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A naturalist... hum! I personally have a difficult job distinguishing what a naturalist is.

On a global perspective there are a lot of spieces of tree that have been almost wiped out by lack of planning on the foresters who harvest the wood. (South American Mahogony, for one / Hondurus Mahogony)

A number of "third world cultures" have been raped of their natural resources, with no plan of what is left for the future.

This being said our fishing on the east coast of Canada has been over fished to a point of "endangered spieces" (Cod being one)

I live in a country with an abundant amount of resources but we still rape our own land and in a lot of cases with no thought of our children.

Do I agree with this "NO" but this problem was created one person at a time and will only be repaired one person at a time.

I am not a "naturalist" but a logical and caring person. I am not going to fix things with a majic wand, but I am one person who tries to think wise.

I do use exotic woods with no understanding how they found their way to the shop I purchased it from, only that it has made it to the shop.

I use my auto (burning the fossil fuel) to pick up my wood, take it home use the electricity (produced by fuels of one sort or another), cutting it on a saw that was built using natural resources, etc.

I am sorry but to me, a naturilist is a person who wears leaves for clothes (or no clothes at all) eats natural home grown products out of there own garden, does not own a TV, use an auto, etc as these are not natural but man made using the resources you choose to protect.

You are a thimble of water in an ocean, and the ocean currants take you on the same path as us all.

I guess in a lot of ways we are all hypocrites in one way or another, even naturilists. We talk the talk but never walk the walk.

This question, is not a question that has a right answer, as we all see things different and set our own priorities, based on what we see as being important and the right thing to do for us.

Will you change my mind or views "NO".

Life always gives us choices and there will always be opposing views, with different paths for each of us.

Man... I gotta stop, I could go on forever.

Through the eyes of John

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Ol' Dave

Would you prefer the people of third world countries ( like Sumatra and Borneo) stop doing anything at all to feed themselves?
Not sure if my opinion is well funded but, orangutans are not important in the least when compared to human beings.

BTW, how does one exploit palm oil?

ecologito

I am sorry, That is my job position. I have a BS in ecology and I work as a naturalist interpreter for Cleveland Metroparks. I am also a member of the National Association for Interpretation.

Like John said and just like him I do also drive a car and use electricity, it would be unreasonable think of a real life without it. We all have to make some choices and some are easier to make than others ( using LED light bulbs at home instead of incandescent or Compact Fluorescent lights).

Other than that, I love hiking, camping, rock climbing, white water kayaking, fly remote control planes and now I am trying to learn about wood working.

I agree with Daren, landscapers use all kind of plants that are not endemic. I heard about garlic mustard salad ( very invasive plant), what a better way to eliminate the problem than eating it?

I didn't want people to debate about my job but I guess that was my mistake for not explaining what I meant. I'd like to know what do wood workers do to make informed decisions when picking a type of wood or where to get it from.

There is a new and very small group of mining companies that are trying to do their job environmentally responsible and they call this group " Responsible miners" and just like Fair trade for other industries I don't know if there is some trend or standard for the logging industry.

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Daren

Do me a favor and find out what they do with the trees that have to be removed from the parks...bet they haul them to the landfill/tubgrinder

I am not picking on you, just adding my 2 cents. I am getting an earful of "green cities" touting how many trees they plan on planting in the next 1/5/10...years...the whole time hauling off the ones our grandfathers planted as so much garbage instead of making them available for utilization. (let a guy with a sawmill have them)

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ecologito

I am sorry if I misused the word exploit, English is not my native language as you can tell but I am working on it.

I know that humans seem to think that we are the most important thing and nature is either something that we use or is on our way. But it is not ok to kill animals to the verge of extinction because we want to use palm oil. There are ways to grow it on a farm setting but it is easier for people to take what is already there instead of growing their own.

It has been a pain on the neck to buy my groceries and buy only products without palm oil because I would not like to go to a zoo, show my kids or grandkids an orangutan and say, you see that animal there?, they are gone.

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ecologito

Now I got that off my chest, I want to thank you for the topic, it made me think!

What are you doing in woodworking, making lots of saw dust I hope. :)
Do you have any projects on the go.

Pleased to meet you.

Have a gereat day.
John

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ecologito

Thans John I hope I am making a lot of sustainable Dust

Nice to meet you too.

Does anyone know any sources of sustainable wood?

So far I have only built a key holder / shelf and right now I am building a bird box. I live at an apartment so no shop, but lots and lots of dust and shavings on the guest room.

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TexasTimbers

When I hear someone describe themself as a natuarilst, I immediately roll my eyes. It sounds like to me you are simply trying to be a good steward . . . at least attempting to be.

My hair automatically stands up on the back of my neck when I see someone, on the internet, typing from a heated/air-conditioned structure, sitting in a nice comfy cushioned chair, sipping imported coffee, all of which were manufactured/processed/transported using fossil fuels, illegally logged timber to some degree, and claiming to be on the cutting edge of conservationalism, naturalism, green stewardship or however else you want to phrase it.

If someone is gonna preach that I say either take up your cross and lead by example or quit claiming you are doing any good, and fostering the idea that you have higher and nobler ideals and "intentions". Intentions mean nothing and by using the "non-naturalist" system which you are obviously helping to perpetuate, you deny yourself any credibility as actually walking your talk.

You won't change anyone's habits by saying one thing but doing another, even if you lay out all the disclaimers such as "I know I use electricity and buy groceries at the grocery store (which perpetuates the serfdom of the migrant workers if you want to split hairs) BUT . . ." No, no "buts".

I am not attacking you in your personal capacity, just the philosophy you have adopted. It has no meaning any more that the tree huggers who lay in front of bulldozers during the day, and on their way to their grid-dependent very cozy, un-green stick framed 80%-wood-product-homes, first stop by the unemployment office to pick up their checks which the loggers pay for through their taxes.

But other than that I have no real strong opinions on the matter. I better get out to the sawmill I have some trees i need to turn into cash so I can pay my taxes so the local treehuggers can protest my fossil-fuel-dependent sawmill.

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ecologito

Thanks for your non attacking opinion on "my" phiolosophy". What about the non sustainable exotic wood topic?

I agree with you, I don't like protesters against globalization who travel all over the world and coordinate their actions through the internet (makes no sense). All I do is try to inform myself and make better decisions whenever possible.

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Daren

, yep you better get busy.
"someone, on the internet, typing from a heated/air-conditioned structure, sitting in a nice comfy cushioned chair, sipping imported coffee, all of which were manufactured/processed/transported using fossil fuels, illegally logged timber to some degree, and claiming to be on the cutting edge of conservationalism, naturalism, green stewardship or however else you want to phrase it."

And I will add the chair/table the coffee is setting on/computer desk...is all most likely imported from someplace that was made in a sweatshop by workers with no rights from less than ideally forested wood. I love it when they print up fliers and try to shove them in my hand about saving trees. Like they don't even know where paper comes from.

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Daren

I think I have to stop participating in this conversation. I asked a question of you "What do they do with the trees in the parks in Cleveland when they are removed" or any of the 10,000's that are removed in the greater metro area ?
http://nelsonwoodworks.biz/pb/wp_1b6..._1b63ff05.html

Here is the contact info for the Cleveland Parks Department (if you do not already have it) http://www.city.cleveland.oh.us/gove...dmin/index.asp
I see Mr. Cox's workers will come and cut down a street tree...where does it go ?

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ecologito

I saw your link to urban logging and it is awesome what you do, wood, the shavings, it is awesome!

I am sorry I didn't answer but I don't know the answer right away, but I had to check with the Department of natural resources. We are a separate entity from the Cleveland Parks department and we have nothing to do with them. www.clemetparks.com

If the tree is blocking a roadway or trail they cut it to clear the trail and let nature do the rest. If they decide that the wood will be available for people to take they stack it next to the road (seem to work really well). With Ash is a different procedure due to the ash borer problem. If the tree is something that can be workable our forestry department will take it to their shop and build benches, furniture or whatever can be done with it.

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eco

Maybe try some of these exotic wood sites. They may answer your ecologoly concerns.
http://woodfinder.com/woods/woodindex.php
http://www.gilmerwood.com/
http://woodfinder.com/woods/woodindex.php

I may suggest glimerwood as a start.This is 3 of many that sell exotic woods.

John

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ecologito

Thanks for the links John,

I found a couple of websites that seem promising and very interesting:

http://www.altruwood.com/

NOt sure about Kauri: http://www.ancientwood.com/index.htm

Very cool info: http://www.bluemoonexoticwood.com/index1.html

Cheers

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jeffreythree

I guess I will jump in now. I have seen quite a bit of the exotic lumber from overseas. I believe that there are some over exploited areas and species, but there are also some areas/people that are trying to make a difference. I cut back on a lot of my own exotic wood purchases. The flip side of the problems is utilization of the trees. People need to eat, and if the cheapest way is to cut some trees and grow some crops, then that is how they are going to do it. There are some great "exotics" that may get wiped out because they are not viable in their current harverst quantities to make a market. Who is going to replant a small market/niche tree when they can grow teak, fast growing lyptus, cash crops, etc. that have established markets. Even the US has problems utilizing trees to the fullest extent. I like to use wood that would otherwise be trashed, especially since I use short and figured pieces. Here in Texas we have this little problem called air pollution from the grandfathered coal plants, but the coal strip mine on I-45 between Houston and Dallas is the cleanest mining site I have ever seen. They even had a portable mill working on a pile of the trees they had to remove when I drove by one day. It is what led me to the discovery of what a portable mill is, urban lumber, and the decline of some exotic woods I was using.

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drcollins804

In the time this thread has existed there have been numerous exotic trees cut and burned in the Tropical Rain Forests by locals just trying to carve out a small place to grow food and live and because of the limited ability to grow in a not very fertile land they will move again in 3-5 years and do the same thing again. Not unlike the way our ancesters settled much of this country. A very large percentage of the exotic woods never become furniture or anything else except heat and ashes. Just like many of the trees in the "civilized" world. Just a few observations.

Daren

Good ones too.

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