Preventing checking - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum

 
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post #1 of 17 Old 03-18-2009, 12:24 PM Thread Starter
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Preventing checking

What's the best & most cost effective product to paint log ends to prevent checking?
Is any ordinary latex paint OK? Is something else better / cheaper?

Also, if the log is milled into boards soon after felling, do you still need to paint the ends?
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post #2 of 17 Old 03-18-2009, 07:12 PM
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I have seen many people say latex works for them but i doubt long term it does. Latex is engineered to breathe so as not to trap water, which is the very thing you want to do with end grain. Seal the logs as soon as they are felled not to just prevent checking but mildew etc. If you want to spalt them then you wouldn't seal them but that's a different deal altogether.

An emulsified wax sealer is the best thing to use. Anchor Seal is a good product. Just Google UC Coatings. It is not cheap but it goes a long way so value wise it is well worth it.

Also, I will be selling a private label sealer most likely next year. I have been working with a Chemist for a couple of years now and I think I finally have a formula that does everything I was looking for.

I will send you a quart if you like and you can try it gratis. I have been sending free samples out with many of my turning blank orders and have got 100% feedback thus far. If you want some PM your address. I would like you to also purchase a quart of Anchor Seal if you will, so you can make an informed comparison.

Either way, get those logs sealed.
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post #3 of 17 Old 03-18-2009, 07:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasTimbers View Post

Also, I will be selling a private label sealer most likely next year. I have been working with a Chemist for a couple of years now and I think I finally have a formula that does everything I was looking for.


Interested as well, I tried latex, and it may have worked but there is still checking in some boards where the paint was not thick enough.
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post #4 of 17 Old 03-18-2009, 09:52 PM
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Be glad to send you some Nate. PM me.

I just reread my post and I want to clarify some things. First I have actually been "working" with this chemist for over 3 years, but the way I worded it sounds like we have been working on a formula "for years".

That's not the impression I am trying to give. Anyone who knows me well, knows I have CMIITFS (Chronic Multiple Irons In The Fire Syndrome) so this formula could have been arrived at in months actually I just never devoted much time to it all at once.

I was really going to pursue this vigorously about 18 months ago but the mix we had at that time hadn't been tested through the summer months and at the same time I had my actual labels back from the graphic artist and my trademark papers ready to mail (literally) I started seeing mildew in my logs. I'm glad it happened in hindsight. Most sealers have a mildecide in them but most do not have enough to be effective in a high heat, high humidity climate like we do here most of the year.

So back to the drawing board I went. This chemist I am talking about is a young guy but he is a wizard. They have never added the kind of mildecide to a log sealer that I was now requested and he said flat out "I have no idea how this will actually work or if it will." They add it to the was sealer they sell to the big lumber companies for sealing their OSB but I was the test bed for this. We sort of educated each other because logs were not his forte, and wax emulsion was not mine.

So he would say something like "well we do have a ***xx-based mildecide but it is only formulated for a ***x-wax, not for a ***x-based log sealer. What you are asking is really off base it hasn't been done before as far as I know." And I would say something like "Well will it blow up when you mix it?" and he would say something like "Haha of course not it just might not have the viscosity you nedd to spray it." and I would say something like "Spraying be dmanded I want it thick thick thick I don't want to have to apply it twice!"

So the short of it is, the kind of mildecide he added, in the quantity he did, thickened this stuff up perfect for me. No mildew and no reapplications. No spraying but I don't care. The first couple of formulas would not dry clear so that was out because I need to see the rings and growth pattern to saw it like I need to, but he finally tweaked it to where it does dry clear and also dries fast. One pre-mildecide batch was thick enough but took days to dry. No bueno.

Anyhow. That's where I am at with it. You want to try it PM your snail mail.
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post #5 of 17 Old 03-19-2009, 10:32 AM
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Thanks Dude, working on the PM now.
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post #6 of 17 Old 03-19-2009, 01:08 PM
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We use Anchorseal and it seems to work real well, it's got a considerable bit of wax in it. It's also reasonable, $16.99 a Gal thru Highland Woodworking. However, I'm always interested in new and improved methods/treatments etc ... so I'd certainly be interested in trying your creation TT
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post #7 of 17 Old 03-19-2009, 02:51 PM
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Wow did I ever get a response. Wasn't expecting that. Most offered to pay shipping I appreciate that I wasn't thinking so many would PM but I got 5 so far not counting you Oscar. I am sending the quart to Ron as promised and everyone else will get a pint to try.

Oscar email your snail mail to kevin [at] texastimbers.com and I'll send you some also.

I also want to make it very clear that I am not knocking Anchorseal even a little. It's a fantastic product and I do not have visions of becoming a "competitor" of that fine company. Heck they have a cult following nearly and I am sure some of you may even prefer their product over mine. No hard feelings at all.

I prefer a real thick sealer though, and of course I have the mildew problem and the standard Anchorseal formula does not combat my mildew 100% like my formula does. I am sure UC Coatings could/would mix my own recipe but I am happy working with the company I have, so that's the deal. Has nothing to do with me thinking UC Coatings is not a great product and company because they are both.

Anyone else wants to try it I will extend this free pint offer for another few days but I can't give too much away just because the time it takes to repackage and process these samples.

Thanks to all for participating in my impromptu market testing program.
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post #8 of 17 Old 03-19-2009, 11:58 PM
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I have to close the free sample offer already. I have enough "testers" and I thank them all and look forward to the feedback.
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post #9 of 17 Old 03-20-2009, 12:55 PM Thread Starter
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Preventing checking

TexasTimbers, thanks for the sample your sending & please let me know what your shipping cost is & I'll be glad to pay that. I will take your advise & buy some Anchor Seal so I can do a good product comparasion for you. You must fell pretty good about your product if you are sending me to the competition to buy & compare theirs to yours. I real life I'm a Quality Engineer & been in the Quality field for over 20+ years, (Manufacturing industry), with some experience in new product development & testing. I will be glad to test & compare these for you under my conditions here in West Michigan. Please let me know if you have any specific characteristics you want me to test & how to measure & report the performance.
West Michigan conditions are similar to yours in regards to frequent high humidity, but summers temps are typically only in the high 80's, occasionally mid 90's.... winters typically 0 to 10 degrees, sometimes approaching 10 below.
Thats again, I'll stay in touch.
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post #10 of 17 Old 03-20-2009, 01:00 PM Thread Starter
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preventing checking

TexasTimbers -:
Oh one more thing I forgot to ask.
1. Do you have a timetable yet as to when you'll be bringing your product to market?
2. Do you have a pricing schedule figured out yet?

Oh..... that's two things.... I guess I can't count very well..
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post #11 of 17 Old 03-20-2009, 05:18 PM
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Boy did I miss out on this one! I just got a bucket from a Anchorseal competitor. The price was better but the shipping (left coast and surprise wish-you'd-told-me-up-front hazmat rates) was a killer.


TT I sure wish I had some of your product to try. I would also be curious about the price of your product.


Back to the original question - I'm with TT. But there are some who insist they do ok with latex paint. I have my doubts. Sealer paint may work better. A cheap source is a local paint center's mismixed storage.

There are other ways to seal a log - parrafin wax works good but you have to heat it to melt it and be very careful to keep it away from open flame because it is very flamable. Bees wax is probably the best sealer there is but it also has to be heated and I can only imagine the price.
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post #12 of 17 Old 03-20-2009, 07:57 PM
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clod,

PM your snail mail I can't say no to you.


On the price guys, I am still kicking it around. I am not going to try and make a killing, I look at it as more of service to my wood customers. I do want to clear overhead, taxes, and have a few nickels to rub together after all said and done but since it won't be my main business I just want it to contribute to the overall cause.

So the answer is I dunno yet.

Last edited by TexasTimbers; 03-20-2009 at 08:00 PM.
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post #13 of 17 Old 03-31-2009, 10:44 PM
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Did everyone get their sample? I may have missed someone. Ron I know I owe you another canister will get it off tomorrow.

Dirtclod haven't heard from you if you want a sample PM your shipping address.
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post #14 of 17 Old 04-01-2009, 03:08 PM
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Received and Thank's. Will let you know how it does in the local humidity of the Ohio River Valley. Had just bought a gallon of Anchorseal so will be able to do a good compare also.
Thanks again David
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post #15 of 17 Old 04-04-2009, 01:56 PM Thread Starter
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shipments recieved

Thanks again, I received both boxes. I haven,t ordered the Anchor Seal yet but will do so as soon as I get home. I am in Denver Colorado dealing with a family crisis and am sitting twiddling my thumbs waiting out a blizzard thats in Northeastern Colorado that's preventing me from doing what I came here to do. Oh well..... I guess Mother Nature has ultimate control right now. I have a 60 to 70 foot tall cherry tree that uprooted & went down behind my house in Michigan, so in the next couple weeks I intend to cut it into 5 to 8 foot sections. I will test your product & Anchor Seal on it. Will let you know the results. Thanks Again.
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post #16 of 17 Old 04-04-2009, 06:23 PM
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RHarkins, address to said house in Grand Rapids. Ill take care of that pesky cherry tree for you, free of charge of course.
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post #17 of 17 Old 04-08-2009, 02:06 PM Thread Starter
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'Pesky' cherry tree

This cherry tree has a unique story behind it.
It was behind my house in amongst lots of tall oak trees, but was on city property. I was drooling over this tree & was looking for an excuse to justify asking the city if I could take it down. In addition, I had an old very rotton shed nearby that I was going to tear down & build a bigger one. One afternoon during a nasty windstorm, the wind uprooted the cherry tree & it smashed the back half of the shed right to the ground. The shed must have cushened the tree because it didn't split or break at all. My insurance covered the replacement cost of the shed & of course the city was glad to let me clean up the tree! So not only did I get the tree, I got a good chunk of change to put toward my new shed. I measured the tree at over 70' tall & about 30" at the base. I''ve cut the top half up into logs & it's solid so far. The rest, I'm going to cut into logs in the next week or so. I guess this is what you would call a 'windfall".....
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