Cedar ? for those that cut it - Woodworking Talk

jeffreythree · 04-10-2008, 04:46 PM

I have seen in posts here and elsewhere that cedar starts to get hollow in the center after a while. I was offered two off of an old farm homestead that need to come down that are "as big around as that desk". The desk I was sitting at was about 5'x3'. When I asked her which length, she said the long. She said the trees have been there since the house was built over 100 years ago, they have old photos showing them. Would these be solid? I have not seen the trees and do not know what cedar they are. And anyone know of a portable mill near Oklahoma City? I travel around a lot as a software trainer at car dealerships, and some of the people offer me wood when they find out my hobby, just never anything this big.

**joasis** · 04-10-2008, 06:31 PM

The chances are excellent they are punky, or hollow in the center. However, they can still have some great lumber in them. It has been my experience that the larger ERC logs will have less "pink" and aroma, then say, a 20 inch log.

A major caution about trees like these is the possibility of metal...from fences, or nails. There are a few mills close to the city that are portable...you can look for the sawyer's directory on the woodweb for a listing.

**Daren** · 04-10-2008, 07:31 PM

I will agree with joasis, chances are the center is punky. But I have milled some biggins' (admittedly, very few in %) that were not. Even if they do have center rot there is still a good deal of usable wood. From my experience the center rot is not all the way through to the top, meaning maybe the bottom log (or just part of it) will be bad...but if it is tall there should be plenty of good stuff left up aways

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**TexasTimbers** · 04-10-2008, 07:44 PM

I'll let it all hang out and say you can remove the word "chance" altogether.

A 60" ERC is hollow. Especially a pasture queen. And has a nice community of various criters using it as a habitat. Not to mention 19,583,754,375 black ants coming and going at al times.

jeffreythree · 04-10-2008, 11:56 PM

Thanks for the info. I am going to use the threat of critters and ants to suggest they keep the trees. It sure would be nice to see them stick around for another generation of their family to appreciate since there is nothing wrong with them other than size and proximity to their old family homestead.

leejb · 04-11-2008, 12:58 AM

All the cedar trees I have cut have had no rot in them. The cedar I"m talking about are in Washington and Oregon and are used to make cedar shakes and shingles.
Most of the cedar grows near swamp land or along creeks and rivers in the Northwest where I live.

Lee
http://woodtamer.wordpress.com

**joasis** · 04-11-2008, 07:43 AM

ERC also is a time life tree....here in the plains, there are few that make a hundred years..

**TexasTimbers** · 04-11-2008, 08:56 AM

lee, you are cuttin WRC and POC and several other true cedars. They get huge and often stay solid.

These we are discussing are eastern red cedar. They are really none f the abouve; they are not confined to the eastern seaboard, not red really, and sure as heck ain't cedar. They are junipers and have a different cell structure. I am surely no tree guru but for whatever reason, the heartwood cell structure in juniperus virginius doesn't lend itself to withstanding the attacks that WRC etc. does.

That's a very basic explanation but about all I am capable of. AFA ERC not lasting longer than 100 years that's not the case at least down here. I have counted 50 - even once 80+ rings (it was hard to count some exactly because some were so tight) in trees that had a hollow middle a foot in diameter. I have also counted 130 rings (okay my wife counted them) on a 30"+ (think it was 34") on my MIL property we harvested that was solid as a rock. That is rare even here.

But I can take you to dozens and dozens of ERC within a 2 or 3 mile radius of me I know are easily over 100. Not trying to assassinate your statement joasis just sharing my experience down here. My guess is you have them older than you realize. You can't rings in hollow hearts, but when you havre pasture queens with 50,60,70+ rings and a hollow heart 8-12" in diameter you can guess you have a pretty old lady.

**Daren** · 04-11-2008, 09:16 AM

I know up here, and probably where joasis lives they don't grow to old age because of weather. Since they are evergreen ice storms and wind kill them. The deciduous hardwoods take a beating, but the leaves are off during those bad weather months where as the cedars get heavily iced and damaged/killed. Same with right now, we have had several inches of rain and the wind is going to gust to 50 mph today, no doubt some will blow over uprooted in the soft soil. I have never counted rings, guess I could I have one right now to mill that is near 30". I don't see very many over 30", they just don't get that big around here, with the very rare exception.

**joasis** · 04-11-2008, 10:31 AM

Since my area was basically bare plains,and the cedars are not native, per say, it is safe to say that 100+ year old trees are rare. I have cut a few that have legible growth rings, and haven't bothered to count them, but were easily 80+ and huge, with very little punk or rot. As Daren says, wind is the number 1 killer of the tall cedars....fire right in there, since they burn like a roman candle, and ice and snow kill the big ones, since when they are huge, and loose branches, they tend to die.

The plumber I use is a degreed (Dendrologist)(?), anyway, majored in forestry and trees of all things, and he is a wealth of trivial knowledge about what grows here....I will have to ask him, but it could be in a sheltered canyon, the trees could live a few hundred years. I was surprised when he told me that many trees have a very short life, compared to others.....

**TexasTimbers** · 04-11-2008, 12:07 PM

I think my opinions are shaped too much by me living right on the Red River basically. I log oklahoma occassionally and there are some monsters there.

But it must be alot different further up north you go. Down here in north Texas/southern Oklahoma, you cross the Red and the soil changes immediately. Texas side has blackland here and you swim the river and crawl up on red sand in oklahoma. The terrain is also different because those Okies have clear cut everything over the years to farm and Ranch. Over here the Texas farmers and ranchers do the same but for whatever reason they leave huge chunks of woods intact.

Now where it is the same, is where there ARE woods here in south Oklahoma, they are the same growth/age. So I assume the further north you go the worse the clear cutting has been over the years.

i am probably all wrong on all of this but just trying to figure out why there are so many monsters in southern Ok and you guys up north Ok and the midwest have none/few.