Laguna Tools Junk - Woodworking Talk

ARaisch · 04-17-2009, 01:22 PM

This post has been a long time coming but, here it goes! In December of 2008 I ventured out on my own for the first time in the construction/carpentry world. The first job I landed was to make some high end custom cabinets for a client with whome I had done work for previously. The next step was deciding on the proper equiptment to get the job done and in accordance with my high standards. I decided upon a combination machine due to the size of my shop and the price and read up on several reviews before settling in on the 10” Platinum combination machine from Laguna Tools. My initial experience with Laguna was great. I spoke with Ken, a sales rep for Laguna, and he suggested that I attempt to finance the machine through one of there recommended lenders. Unfortunetely they required more business history and as such I was declined the loan offer. This caused a little delay but, Ken stayed on top of things and I decided to place the purchase on my personal credit card. The machine took several days to leave Laguna Tools and then about a week before I took delivery. As informed I inspected the machine, noted any damages, and responded within 24 hours. The create itself was in good shape but when I opened it that is when the adventure began. All of the may aluminum parts had some level of damage to them, including the sliding table, paint was flaking off of the fences, and chipped off of the carcus, and wires were loose. When I reported this to Ken he said that it was probably an issue with shipping but, I new better! I then proceded for the next two days attempting to calibrate the entire machine. I was chasing my tale as nothing lined up bolts were striping gromits were coming loose. I found marks on the saw blade and saw dust wedged into the ends of the sliding table rails. After calling again, Ken turned me over to Roman in customer “lack of” service and I was told to try basically ignore the issues and try to use the machines features. So I did. The saw arbor was bent, the friction wheel on the planer does not engage, the belt for the scoring blade will not stay on, rip fence adjustment screws stripped, and the infeed and outfeed portions of the fence for the shaper is offset and not parallel. I was told that I could return the machine but, if they could not find any thing wrong with it I would have to pay for shipping, the restocking fee and they would decide how much was to be refunded. That was not an option so I elected to have parts replaced. After about two months of arguing through emails as to weather or not the machine was new or used, weather the parts could be replaced, and the lack of answers to many of my questions, I was informed that they would be shipping me saw blades, belts, and eventually a new machine. At this point I was a month behind on my cabinet job and the client was not happy. I immediately sent a reply email asking when the new machine would be shipped, when could I expect the blades and belt, what should I do with the old machine? I waited for about a week with no response before I placed a call to Ken. Ken, as always, was on the ball and contacted Roman. I received an email from Roman stating that the machine was not in stock and that they would receive it in no LESS than three weeks, the blades and belt were being shipped immediately, and he did not know what I was to do with the old machine. Two weeks passed and no blades or belt. Come to find out they never shipped. When I asked for the tracking information I was given the wrong number and come to find out the day that I called to check on the status of the items they was the day they shipped! Two weeks late!
After three weeks passed no machine. When I inquired about it I was told that it was due to the fact that I mentioned to Ken that I would possibly want to swap the machine for just a sliding tablesaw. I tried to get the charge reversed on my credit card but, when I was informed how long it was going to take I decided, in the mean time, to work with my other options. I first told them that I wanted an even swap for the 6’ pro slider and they said that was not a problem and that I could even upgrade to the 9’ pro for only $750.00. Due to the lack of space and the lack of income I opted to go with the 6’ pro. This was of coarse not in stock and I was going to have to wait another three weeks at the minimum. I went to a friends house and measured his shop and we agreed that the larger model would fit and because, it was the only option in stock, I decided to go with it.
Two weeks later I received the new saw. My first impression was a good one. It was packaged well and there were only minor cosmetic blemishes but, nothing to get upset about (not to mention my expectations were low). Upon closer inspection I did notice that the motor housing and the main carcus for the slider had some bending and denting but I did not concern myself with those issues.
I have had this saw for about four weeks now and still can not get it to keep allignment. The slider has way too much play, the boom arm puts so much torc on the slider that it twists, and as of two days ago the motor or the curcuitry has gone on he frits and the blade only runs at about 100 rpms before it overheats and shuts down!
I do not know what to do! At this point these machines have cost me so much time and money that I can not pay my bills. I am broke! The friend whose shop I put this monster in sold his old table saw to make room and now is suffering delays himself! I need a machine that worksa and is reapeatably accurate. Is that two much to ask for $6000.00? And at thsi point I need compensation for lost work, time, and an irrate client! Laguan Tools does not deserve to be in business!

Rob · 04-17-2009, 01:54 PM

Your very first post here at our friendly, little community and it's titled "Laguna Tools Junk"
I'm not usually too politically correct, so I won't be with this either. Get lost!

GeorgeC · 04-17-2009, 02:04 PM

Paragraphs were invented to break up text and make for easier reading.

I started to read your post and then gave up as it was just too hard to read.

However, just based on your title I was going in biased. I will never confirm legitimaze on anyone post that attempts to lay a label of either good or bad on any brand of tool based on just one sample. As a matter of fact even two or even three samples are insufficient to determine a trend.

Anyway, welcome aboard. I hope our future relationships turn out better.

George

cabinetman · 04-17-2009, 02:10 PM

WELCOME TO THE FORUM

You could have started off by saying "Hi everybody".

Your bad experience could have happened with any tool company. My personal experience with Laguna happened to be very good. As a rule, I wouldn't buy a combo machine, as when one part may go, all of it may go. I'm in favor of isolated machines, like a TS, BS, shaper, all separate. I also try to order from local distributors that have the tool in stock, so it could be seen prior to delivery if possible.

You might try to plan for delays in your setups or even waiting for materials, as a work schedule is critical to cash flow.

TheRecklessOne · 04-17-2009, 02:20 PM

Really? Sweet first post...

Nate1778 · 04-17-2009, 02:39 PM

Dude talk to Laguna, my eyes hurt from your post. Obviously your upset and if the tool is junk then get with the manufacturer and see if they will make it right. You offer no suggestion of doing so, so your post is obviously a rant with no basis, hence NO ONE CARES. Man at least state that you called them and they just laughed at you or something.

RLHERRON · 04-17-2009, 03:07 PM

WOW

What a story. Sounds like the last paragraph sums it up. This is going to a lawyer

I'd love it if Laguna could read this and comment on this transaction from their side of the fence.

I bet that's a story in itself.

There is always two sides to a story and the funny part is there always different.

RLH

scribbles · 04-18-2009, 01:05 AM

I am sorry for your experience, it sucks, but you need help with making business decisions, if you need a tool for a job you already have. Go to a good tool store and pick one up. Hells go to home depot and buy a $500 table saw. I do not have any Laguna tools, but I have friends that do, and they swear buy the quality of there tools and service.
I personally never liked all the aluminum so I will stick with jet and powermatic.

ARaisch · 04-18-2009, 10:35 AM

Hello every one..

Sorry that I just jumped right into the complaint I did not know that would hurt so many peoples feelings.

About the paragraphs I copied and pasted from a post on Lumber Jocks I indented there but it did not post that way You see normal paragraphs do not have spaces between them they are indented.

The title reflects the 2 machines that I now have possession of not all of there tools. Although I do find it peculiar that I have an original machine and a replacement of a different model and both have had major issues

What I am trying to do is get the word out There are people all over the internet that have received poor quality in both service and machining from Laguna Tools I care about people not companies trying to take advantage of others

A lady named Nancy reported a couple of months ago on Lumber Jocks that she received a machine with a large gash in the cast iron table and they told her to sand it out! So I am not the only one. But, I don't care if I am it is my experience and I am relaying that information so that others will not make the same mistake

As far as buying a cheaper piece of equiptment from another company Why? This is my profession not hobby. I have a small shop and after researching I came to believe that one machine that would do almost all of the functions that I needed would be the way to go. I originally spent $4500 and got a sliding table saw a jointer a planer a shaper and a mortiser. If you price these out it is a lot of money to buy them individually so I actually tried to save money and at the same time get something that would do the job for years to come. It is called an investment.

woodnthings · 04-18-2009, 10:49 AM

$4500 or $6000 would have bought some serious machines at Grizzly, albeit they would be separate stand alones, but a few rolling stands and they could be moved about as needed. Just my thoughts. I have had pretty good luck with a Mini Max 18" bandsaw, but that's the extent of my European tool experience. I have 2 Grizzly shapers and find no faults with either. I would buy anything they sold in the "professional" type tools.

bill

Nate1778 · 04-18-2009, 12:30 PM

What is Laguna's response? You would have obviously gotten with them about your problem before such a bashing.

scribbles · 04-18-2009, 01:28 PM

I am a professional as well, but I have spent $500-$1000 on a tool and sold it after 2 weeks, just to keep my shop moving. Having your shop down off 2 months because of tool is just not acceptable.

ARaisch · 04-19-2009, 11:17 AM

Scribbles- it has been four months. I bet you are really angry now

Nate1778- the response that I get with almost every issue is that they do not usually have that issue with this machine! That must be what they are told to say or I must be the only one who speaks up (we know that is not true).

scribbles · 04-19-2009, 03:27 PM

After 4 months I would take a road trip to the Laguna factory, I have little patience for defective tools. (Or lazy employees, stupid is ok, just not lazy) One month of downtime is worth more that the cost of the tool.

Is your shop up and running now, with something temporary at least? I missed 6 days about a month ago because of phenomena; I was at the doctors every 2 days hollering for better antibiotics and such until they figured it out.

Man my wife really is a saint for putting up with me. Lol…

ARaisch · 04-19-2009, 06:29 PM

I bought a festool router and plunge cut saw. My friend who donated space in his shop for the 9' slider has a 6" grizzly jointer, delta portable planer, and a router table. No replacement work hourse (table saw) though.

firehawkmph · 04-19-2009, 07:30 PM

ARaisch,
I am always interested in reading threads of this nature. I was kind of surprised to hear of the lousy service and condition of the machines they shipped. They sure seem to run some nice ads in the different magazines. After all the trouble you had, if it were me, I would just return everything at their expense and get my money back. I don't see how you would ever be happy with it. I can't believe a company would ship items that arrived gouged and gashed and not bend over backwards to replace it. Sorry to hear about this. Keep us posted and let us know what happens.
Mike Hawkins

smokey1945 · 04-19-2009, 08:00 PM

This is a copy & paste from Lumberjocks that has been raging for two days.

**TexasTimbers** · 04-19-2009, 08:46 PM

I've been staying out of this thing purposely. I guess that's done.

I have to say I read your post and it sounds dramatized. Then I read it again and I think there's no way you could make all that up. I don't know what to think. I think if it is even 80% accurate you got screwed, blued, and tatooed.

I can't imagine that I would have turned down their initial offer of a full refund, even with their caveat of the damage and defects not being imagined. I would have taken pictures, and video of it operating/running before I returned it. I also would have gotten in writing their promise of a full refund.

I understand your need to get the job done, but you were undercapitalized to have entered into this project IMO. You have to have a slush fund with this type of business and if you do not, you need to start with smaller projects and work your way up. I realise this is subjective but it is just my opinion. It's the same as people who upgrade to bigger planer or sander when they do not even have a dust collector. It makes no sense to me.

I do hope you get it worked out to your satisfaction, but I can't tell what you are doing to rectify it. Are you still on speaking terms with Laguna? Are they aware of these posts you are making everywhere?

ARaisch · 04-19-2009, 11:25 PM

Thanks for the post TexasTimbers- the initial offer of a refund came with the catch of possibly being stuck paying for all of the shipping cost, restocking fee, and once they decided on the condition of the machine they said that it would be up to them as to what amount they would refund. I could not take that chance as shipping alone in total would have come to $1000.00. So I bit my tongue and accepted parts replacement. It was only after I told them that the belt for the scoring blade would not stay on and they could not tell me how to fix it that they offered a full refund. By this time I was in pretty bad shape financially and new that it would take either extra money or a couple of days to remove the machine from my second story shop. I also felt that I could not take any further delays waiting for the refund and then trying to get another machine from some other company. I am also quite forgiving and I give people the benefit of the doubt sometimes well beyond them proving that they are not worth it. I also figured, on the machine side of things that the quality had to do with the low cost for the amount of features so that is why I decided to exchange it for a single feature sliding table saw ($5000.00 for 5 functions or $6000.00 for one). Regardless of why I made the decisions that I did, I have not received due diligence in the remediation of my problems.

Smokey1945- what is your point? Yah So?

Fbranco · 04-20-2009, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokey1945

This is a copy & paste from Lumberjocks that has been raging for two days.

It maybe so, but the Op is hardly the only person that had problems with laguna.
http://woodworkerszone.com/igits/showthread.php?t=7839
And here.