What size wired needed for 220v - Woodworking Talk - Woodworkers Forum
 
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post #1 of 19 Old 07-06-2010, 02:47 AM Thread Starter
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What size wired needed for 220v

I brought a delta planer mod.22-790x planer -

230 volts
a - 15
ph1
hz60
hp3
rpm 3450

what is on the motor - my question is what size wire is needed to make work without hurting the motor,
an 12/2 or 14/2

need to know, for hookup

thank you
newone
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post #2 of 19 Old 07-06-2010, 03:13 AM
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Fourteen gauge wire supports 15 amps or 1,800 watts and 12 gauge wire is rated for 20 amps or 2,400 watts. My whole shop is getting set up with 12/2 wiring and 20 amp circuits (table and RAS will get dedicated circuits) and 20A outlets. Any 220V 20A circuits will be wired with 12/3 which is what I would use for that planer or any other 220V machine.

As for your motor, doesn't the current draw drop to just over 5A (+/-) at 220V?

How 220v works with a 3 wires:
1 Black wire carries 110v
1 Red/White wire carries 110v (if you use white flag it with red electrical tape)
1 Green wire acts as a ground/common

How 220v works with 4 wires: (one wire to each) (preferred)
1 Black wire carries 110v
1 Red wire carries 110v
1 White wire acts as a common
1 Green wire acts as a ground

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. James 3:17

Last edited by Mr Mac; 07-06-2010 at 03:49 AM.
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post #3 of 19 Old 07-06-2010, 06:36 AM
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Hi newone,
I don't even use 14 gauge for extension cords. They tend to curl up & twist after awhile. I have a 50 amp circuit for my welder & it uses thicker than 12 gauge. So it depends on what you intend to use on that circuit. I would not wire any plug with 14 gauge to run your planer it's too thin. 14 gauge is more suited for a lighting circuit & even there I used 12 gauge with 15 amp breakers.

James
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post #4 of 19 Old 07-06-2010, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Mac View Post
Fourteen gauge wire supports 15 amps or 1,800 watts and 12 gauge wire is rated for 20 amps or 2,400 watts. My whole shop is getting set up with 12/2 wiring and 20 amp circuits (table and RAS will get dedicated circuits) and 20A outlets. Any 220V 20A circuits will be wired with 12/3 which is what I would use for that planer or any other 220V machine.

As for your motor, doesn't the current draw drop to just over 5A (+/-) at 220V?

How 220v works with a 3 wires:
1 Black wire carries 110v
1 Red/White wire carries 110v (if you use white flag it with red electrical tape)
1 Green wire acts as a ground/common

How 220v works with 4 wires: (one wire to each) (preferred)
1 Black wire carries 110v
1 Red wire carries 110v
1 White wire acts as a common
1 Green wire acts as a ground
Are you sure you have the labeling right in your example?
A 12/2 wire would consist of:
1 Black (hot)
1 White (common or neutral)
1 bare copper or green (ground)

A 12/3 wire would consist of:
1 Black (hot)
1 Red (hot)
1 White (common or neutral)
1 bare copper or green (ground)

A 12/4 wire would consist of:
Usually for commercial or industrial in 3 phase applications
1 Black (hot)
1 Red (hot)
1 Blue (hot)
1 White (common or neutral)
1 copper or green (ground)
some exeptions but not usually found in residential wiring.

The copper or ground wire is not counted in the description. Most homes have 240/120 volt 3 wire service.

James
Whittier, CA.

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post #5 of 19 Old 07-06-2010, 11:53 AM
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I have ran many power tools on 14 gauge wire. I don't believe there is a problem as long as the current draw is less than 15 amps. I can tell you from experienc that wiring with 14 gauge wire is easier than 12 gauge. The 14 gauge wire is more flexable and easier to work with when you have two or wire wires in a box. However, when I wired my shop I only used 14 gauge for the lighting circuits.
I'm not sure why anyone would use three conductor wire on a 220V circuit if the plug only has three prongs; two hot and one ground. On some applance such as a dryer or stove that has a 4 prong plug you would use three conductor wire with a ground.
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post #6 of 19 Old 07-06-2010, 12:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlord View Post
Are you sure you have the labeling right in your example?
A 12/2 wire would consist of:
1 Black (hot)
1 White (common or neutral)
1 bare copper or green (ground)

A 12/3 wire would consist of:
1 Black (hot)
1 Red (hot)
1 White (common or neutral)
1 bare copper or green (ground)

A 12/4 wire would consist of:
Usually for commercial or industrial in 3 phase applications
1 Black (hot)
1 Red (hot)
1 Blue (hot)
1 White (common or neutral)
1 copper or green (ground)
some exeptions but not usually found in residential wiring.

The copper or ground wire is not counted in the description. Most homes have 240/120 volt 3 wire service.

Your example which I colored blue is correct for 110v, however the original post was for 220v on a 12-2+ ground line.

12-2+ Ground 220v

Black - (Hot)
White - (Hot)
Bare wire - (Ground)

There would be no neutral in this circumstance.
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post #7 of 19 Old 07-06-2010, 01:07 PM
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I don't claim to be an electrician, but I always use 12 ga for 110, and 10 ga for 220.....I thought 10 ga was required for 220.....
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post #8 of 19 Old 07-06-2010, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TomC View Post
I have ran many power tools on 14 gauge wire. I don't believe there is a problem as long as the current draw is less than 15 amps. I can tell you from experienc that wiring with 14 gauge wire is easier than 12 gauge. The 14 gauge wire is more flexable and easier to work with when you have two or wire wires in a box. However, when I wired my shop I only used 14 gauge for the lighting circuits.
I'm not sure why anyone would use three conductor wire on a 220V circuit if the plug only has three prongs; two hot and one ground. On some applance such as a dryer or stove that has a 4 prong plug you would use three conductor wire with a ground.
TomC
While you can run power tools on 14 gauge doesn't mean you should use 14 gauge to wire your circuit. You should use 12 gauge because it is large enough for all common tools in a work shop. While 14 gauge is easier to work with I would not use that as a reason to use it.

For receptacles powering your equipment you should be using 12 gauge wire, 14 gauge is to thin & has the possibility of heating up under use of shop equipment depending on demand. You never know what you will want to plug into in the future. Better to be on the safe side. Around here (So. Cal.) Receptacle wiring is done with a minimum of 12 gauge for 20 amp breakers, 10 gauge for 30 amp & so on. You should not wire any receptacle with 14 gauge wire & a 15 amp breaker as it will cause you headaches in the future.

12/2 wire has 2 wires + ground (black, white, & copper ground for a total of 3 wires). 12/3 wire has 3 wires + ground (black, red, white, + copper ground) for a total of 4 wires. The ground wire is not counted for labeling product.

James
Whittier, CA.

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post #9 of 19 Old 07-06-2010, 01:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrbrown View Post
Your example which I colored blue is correct for 110v, however the original post was for 220v on a 12-2+ ground line.

12-2+ Ground 220v

Black - (Hot)
White - (Hot)
Bare wire - (Ground)

There would be no neutral in this circumstance.
Hi,
Sorry my example was not clearer. The wiring is ok, I was just referring to the labeling of the wire used. Your example is correct for 12/2 220v. In the post I was referring to the example of the 12/3 & 12/4.

The ground wire is not counted in the labeling. His 12/3 wire is actually 12/2, & his 12/4 is actually 12/3 wire. It could get confusing when time comes to buy the wiring & trying to read the labeling for for the requirements needed. I guess if he used separate individual wires run thru conduit it would be correct. Most people just use Romex & there the labeling would apply.

The original OP should stop buy the book section when picking up his wiring supplies. He will find the info right there to use as a guide in his installation.

James
Whittier, CA.

Just because you can, doesn't always mean you should!

Last edited by jlord; 07-06-2010 at 01:54 PM.
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post #10 of 19 Old 07-06-2010, 02:24 PM
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The owner's manual requires no. 12 wire, page 4

Quote:
Originally Posted by NEWONE View Post
I brought a delta planer mod.22-790x planer -

230 volts
a - 15
ph1
hz60
hp3
rpm 3450

what is on the motor - my question is what size wire is needed to make work without hurting the motor,
an 12/2 or 14/2

need to know, for hookup thank you newone
http://www.dewaltservicenet.com/docu...12,22-790X.pdf

However I could not find operating amperages and starting amperages, but you can look on the manufactures plate on the motor as they may be different. 15 amps is right at the limit of no. 14 wire, so that's why they recommend no. 12 wire.
http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_many_A..._hp_motor_draw

bill

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo

Last edited by woodnthings; 07-09-2010 at 03:38 PM.
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post #11 of 19 Old 07-07-2010, 06:54 AM
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THIS is a good article to read to help understand wiring in the home.

George
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post #12 of 19 Old 07-09-2010, 03:53 AM
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And all I was saying was that in my shop where a 220V dedicated circuit is required it will be done with 12/3 (4 wires total) on 20A breakers with 20A outlets. I have/had my labeling correct.

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. James 3:17
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post #13 of 19 Old 07-09-2010, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizard1500 View Post
I don't claim to be an electrician, but I always use 12 ga for 110, and 10 ga for 220.....I thought 10 ga was required for 220.....
The wire size is determined by the load carried. In most cases, inside you house, you'll find 14 gauge wiring for your standard outlets connected to 15A breakers/outlets, 12 gauge for 20A and 10 gauge for 30A (like an electric water heater, clothes dryer, etc.) and up to 6 gauge for things like your electric range which typically draw 40A.

The best way to really know what is needed/required for a branch circuit is to check with your local building inspector and have them look up the local code(s) if it differs from the NEC and find out if a permit and inspection are required for a single circuit.

Mac

But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy. James 3:17
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post #14 of 19 Old 07-09-2010, 12:03 PM
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OK, The problem here is not wether 14 ga wire is sufficient for a 15 amp receptical, the problem is the 3 horsies that the motor provides. 15 amp run current is fine, but the starting surge current is going to be the killer. Look in the National Electric Code for the minimum wire size for a 3 hp 240 v single phase motor. I'm betting that they will spec 10 ga wire on a 20 amp breaker. With 10 ga you will be able to be more than 50 feet from the panel.

I will never wire with 14 ga to anything. Period. It just produces too much heat when I will probably load the circuit to the max. Up-wiring (12 ga for 15-amp) doesn't cost much more, and it won't heat up nearly as much. It gives me peace of mind and I know I won't have to replace it in 15 years time as current use goes up.
Jim
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post #15 of 19 Old 07-09-2010, 02:48 PM
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what you need is 12-3 with ground
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post #16 of 19 Old 03-18-2016, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darrellhackney View Post
what you need is 12-3 with ground
i just built a shop 16'x24' and i wired it with 12/2 with 20 amp plugs and i will be feeding a 125 amp box with 8/3 for a distance of 125'. I will put a 220 plug for a planer. I feel it will be safe!
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post #17 of 19 Old 03-18-2016, 06:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAVE WRIGHT View Post
i just built a shop 16'x24' and i wired it with 12/2 with 20 amp plugs and i will be feeding a 125 amp box with 8/3 for a distance of 125'. I will put a 220 plug for a planer. I feel it will be safe!
8 gauge wire is really only rated at 40 amps and going 125' you may only get 35 amps. If you have very much equipment going at once you may not have enough power.
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post #18 of 19 Old 03-19-2016, 12:02 PM
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Unfortunately, this is not the best place to get reliable electrical information. There are many posts in this thread are absolutely incorrect. There are, however, a couple of replies that are true. But again, to get reliable information, your best bet is to go to a dedicated electrical DIY site. They will recite current codes that must (should) be followed, and they can tell you WHY it needs to be the way it is. I have been a member of this DIY site for a good while: http://www.diychatroom.com/f18/ .Please try it out before you take some of the above advice. I will be more than happy to help you there (as will several others).

I have been an electrician for just over 35 years. Many professionals no longer offer assistance on non-electrical sites simply because of push back from some people who THINK they know what to do. They will argue incessantly, almost to the point of insanity. It just isn't worth the effort to combat those hard heads.

And as for the guy who's going to fire off a 125 amp panel with #8 AWG? You too are respectfully invited to post over there.

Another $000,000,000.02 worth of advice,
Mark
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post #19 of 19 Old 03-19-2016, 07:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizard1500 View Post
I don't claim to be an electrician, but I always use 12 ga for 110, and 10 ga for 220.....I thought 10 ga was required for 220.....
It's really the current, not the voltage, that determines how thick of a wire you need.

In fact, a significant reason electrical transmission lines use 110,000V+ is that by keeping voltage extremely high, they can deliver the same amount of power with much lower current, and use thinner conductors without incurring significant power losses/heating.

Anyhow, what I do for these things is as follows. It's conservative but better to buy a little better than you need than need a little better than you bought!

1. Calculate the maximum current on the circuit by summing the currents of anything that is on that circuit.
2. Add 25% as a safety factor. This is the minimum that I would use for a circuit breaker on that circuit.
3. For the actual wire gauge, I'd take the circuit breaker rating, again add another 25%, and then look at the national electric code to find what conductor size I should use.

For example, if you have a 15 amp draw, I would put it on a circuit rated for at least 15 * 1.25 = 18.75 amps, so I'd go with a 20 amp breaker. With a 20 amp breaker, I'd look for a conductor that could carry at least 25 amps, which would be 12 or lower gauge.

Last edited by PMV; 03-19-2016 at 08:04 PM.
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