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post #1 of 24 Old 12-06-2016, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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Question Table Saw Newbie Questions

Just got a Delta 36-6022 at the Depot. You get a lot for $199 (plus military discount). Has a 5 year warranty and all the reviews on the website are 5 star. Even though table saws have a reputation for being one of the most injury causing tools, I've been looking into getting one since I keep running into woodworking situations where I try dangerous stuff with my other tools that a table saw could probably achieve with ease (i.e., trying to cut a 1/2" thick piece in half on my miter saw or running a circular saw along a 3/4" piece's edge to get a narrow bevel).

I was wondering if there are any upgrades I should get for this saw to make it safer and better?

I bought a 90 tooth blade for it, but couldn't find info on the riving knife kerf to know if it'd be a good fit. Turns out the riving knife is 0.02" wider than the teeth and 0.04" wider than the blade. It seems like a bad idea to try the saw out with this difference. Just pushing wood against the blade with the saw off, it gets caught on the riving knife. Do I need a set of riving knives with different widths for different blades?

I'm also a little leery of the fence. I haven't read up about it on the manual, but I can easily lock it in place without it being 90* to the blade.

The anti-kickback pawl assembly will mar the surface of the table if I leave it on. The plastic guards seem a bit much. What's the bare necessities of table saw safety for you?
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post #2 of 24 Old 12-06-2016, 10:47 AM
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I built a sled for mine, after seeing one on this site.

Best invention for table saws since ... table saws !!!
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post #3 of 24 Old 12-06-2016, 10:59 AM
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A table saw has a reputation of being dangerous because more people have them than a lot of other tools. Unless you spend the bucks on a sawstop saw the only way to make any machine safe is you. With a table saw just never put yourself in a situation where your hands are pushing toward the blade. If you slip or something goes wrong and your pushing in the wrong direction it can get you. Also while the wood is between the fence and blade always keep your hands in front side of the blade. Never reach behind the saw for anything. If the board kicks back it can pull your hands into the blade and it can do it in the blink of an eye. I was in a shop onetime and a guy was cutting a used piece of wood that had a staple in it. The staple was hanging down so he couldn't see it and when it reached the bed of the saw the board was hung. Instead of turning the saw off he reached behind the saw to lift the board up and it kicked back drawing his thumb through the blade taking it off. Also until you get really acquainted with the saw use and keep all the guards it comes with in place. Most of us that are experienced remove all the guards because they get in the way. It would just be so much better to be inconvenienced with the cumbersome guard than to get hurt and working by yourself you don't have the benefit of experienced people around showing you the ropes. Sooner or later a mishap will happen and it's better not to fight with the machine. Usually when something goes very wrong for me I just raise my hands and back away from the machine. I can buy another board, not fingers.
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post #4 of 24 Old 12-06-2016, 12:26 PM
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I was wondering if there are any upgrades I should get for this saw to make it safer and better? look for online videos and tutorials, typically you build a jig fixture as you need them. I prefer a riving knife because you can leave it on all the time. a splitter with anti kb pawls has to be removed for some cuts.

I bought a 90 tooth blade for it, a 50 tooth combination blade works out best for overall use on a ts. but couldn't find info on the riving knife kerf to know if it'd be a good fit. Turns out the riving knife is 0.02" wider than the teeth and 0.04" wider than the blade. It seems like a bad idea to try the saw out with this difference. Just pushing wood against the blade with the saw off, it gets caught on the riving knife. Do I need a set of riving knives with different widths for different blades? most knives today can handle regular kerf (~ .125" down to thin kerf (~0.090")

I'm also a little leery of the fence. I haven't read up about it on the manual, read the manual cover to cover - twice! but I can easily lock it in place without it being 90* to the blade.

The anti-kickback pawl assembly will mar the surface of the table if I leave it on probably not. The plastic guards seem a bit much. What's the bare necessities of table saw safety for you?
...fyi...
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post #5 of 24 Old 12-06-2016, 01:01 PM Thread Starter
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I tried some test cuts in 1/4" plywood. I noticed some wobble with the blade that came with the saw and swapped it for the thinner one and it wobbled too, adding 0.03" to each cut. Is that normal? (Probably for a $200 saw)

With the blade wobble, the thinner blade cut equals the riving knife thickness now.
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post #6 of 24 Old 12-06-2016, 01:12 PM
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a few more suggestions

Good advice from TimPa. Here's one of my cardinal rules:

Never put your feed hand or fingers in line with the blade. Keep it to one side or the other, and that will usually be to the right side of the blade. Ripping boards to width is the most common operation on a table saw, so have a push stick/block handy when the piece nears the end of the cut.

Next get your riving kife vs blade thickness figured out. I have drilled out the anti-kickback pawls and removed them They are not useful in my opinion. Often, you just want to make a kerf so far in, then you can't pull the piece back out because the pawls have dug in.

My saws are older and have a splitter plate, not a riving knife. The plates are always there to 1. keep the kerf from closing AND 2. to prevent the far end of the piece from coming away from the fence. When that happens, there is almost always a kickback. The piece rides up and over the top of the spinning blade and returns to the operator with considerable force. The work must always be in continuous contact with the fence.

Crosscutting longer lengths on a table saw leaves much to be desired AND is more safely and accurately done on a miter saw. A table saw "sled" is very handy and a good safety accessory. There are many designs on You Tube and on this site. I posted a build thread on mine:
Table Saw Sled Build

Another very important safety accessory is an outfeed support table. This prevents the work pieces from falling off the far end of the table AND keeps the operator, YOU, from reaching behind the spinning blade to retrieve them! Support rollers are not the best idea. They are tippy and unless they are set just a bit lower than the table, the workpiece will bump into them and knock them away or over. Once I made my combination outfeed and assembly table I was a very happy woodworker.

Finally, a large paddle ON/OFF switch is a great safety accessory device. If you have to bend down to find the ON/OFF switch your eyes are not looking where they should be. Never take your eyes off the spinning blade on workpiece until the blade is stopped. Murphy's Law say, if it can go wrong, it will. Gravity is another law that is not easily circumvented... if it can fall over, it will.

If your workpiece has a knot, staple or nail protruding from the bottom, it will snag the table and stop the feed process. When that happens bump the "safety paddle" switch OFF with your knee, keeping your hands and eyes in place, the blade stops and wait until you figure out what happened.

A proper blade with the correct number of teeth, like 40 or 50, will make most of the cuts you'll ever need. A 60 tooth blade will make a cleaner cut across the grain. An 80 tooth blade has limited use in my opinion, restricted to crosscuts on a miter saw on hardwood frames and such. A 24 tooth blade is good for ripping thicker stock up to 2" or 3". Thin kerf blades take way less material in the kerf, and therefore require less power to run them. I use them almost exclusively... Freud Diablo.

OK, now you have some suggestions and can begin to learn how to use the saw safely.
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Last edited by woodnthings; 12-06-2016 at 03:30 PM.
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post #7 of 24 Old 12-06-2016, 01:55 PM
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Thorn - the manual explains all the set-up and adjustment steps and I strongly suggest you follow them before attempting any precision cuts. or - if the rip fence is not parallel to the blade, _any_ cuts - that's a big binding issue.

Delta uses the same riving knife for just about every make&model.... see the pix. it states the min. kerf and it is a real limit. notice on the pix the worn spots at the leading/trailing edges. the part is "stamped out" so the edges tend to be a smidge thicker than the body. the black oxide wore off after perhaps six rips using a thin kerf blade - thinner by 0.010" ....

and . . . it is a real limit because sometimes a board will want to close up as you rip it - that binds, to sticks, to jams. when I found I was using excessive force to push past the riving knife it was all stop - _before_ accidentally pushing my fingers into the blade!

took the riving knife to a machine shop and had it surface ground to reduce the thickness by 0.2 mm. I only ground it thinner from the "Non-thru cut" line and up - otherwise modifying the bottom thickness messes up the mounting position.....you can see the pix as mounted (checking for blade run out...)

no, Delta does not sell a thinner knife, go figger.
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post #8 of 24 Old 12-07-2016, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for addressing my concerns about the riving knife, TomCT2. How're your fingers?

I have a 60 or 80 tooth 10" blade on my miter saw that is the same thickness as the riving knife that I'm going to try. I also have a few extra 5/8" blade flanges from other tools in my shop to try swapping with the table saw's to see if that helps with the wobble/runout.

I went over the instructions on getting the fence flat on the table and parallel with the blade that I'll try today. I don't really like how the fence is slightly rounded over at the top and bottom. I may figure out how to get a straight, square piece to mount to it sometime. Eventually I'd like to make one of those miter sleds for it.

I'll definitely keep poking around if I have any other issues or concerns before I risk my fingers.
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post #9 of 24 Old 12-07-2016, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorn495 View Post
Just got a Delta 36-6022 at the Depot. You get a lot for $199 (plus military discount). Has a 5 year warranty and all the reviews on the website are 5 star. Even though table saws have a reputation for being one of the most injury causing tools, I've been looking into getting one since I keep running into woodworking situations where I try dangerous stuff with my other tools that a table saw could probably achieve with ease (i.e., trying to cut a 1/2" thick piece in half on my miter saw or running a circular saw along a 3/4" piece's edge to get a narrow bevel).

I was wondering if there are any upgrades I should get for this saw to make it safer and better?

I bought a 90 tooth blade for it, but couldn't find info on the riving knife kerf to know if it'd be a good fit. Turns out the riving knife is 0.02" wider than the teeth and 0.04" wider than the blade. It seems like a bad idea to try the saw out with this difference. Just pushing wood against the blade with the saw off, it gets caught on the riving knife. Do I need a set of riving knives with different widths for different blades?

I'm also a little leery of the fence. I haven't read up about it on the manual, but I can easily lock it in place without it being 90* to the blade.

The anti-kickback pawl assembly will mar the surface of the table if I leave it on. The plastic guards seem a bit much. What's the bare necessities of table saw safety for you?
The fence is supposed to be parallel to the blade. It would be impossible to get it 90 degree.

George
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post #10 of 24 Old 12-07-2016, 08:19 AM
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The fence is supposed to be parallel to the blade. It would be impossible to get it 90 degree.

George
I bet he meant 90 degrees to the front edge of the top like a T-Square.
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post #11 of 24 Old 12-07-2016, 09:43 AM
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>>>I also have a few extra 5/8" blade flanges from other tools in my shop to try swapping with the table saw's to see if that helps with the wobble/runout.

I do not have kind things to say about the new style stamped washers. plus, the original nut for my Delta was not flat. I'd get 0.015-0.035" total run out on a blade. you can try rotating the blade to washer by 90' and recheck-recheck-recheck....PITA

reworked the washer by surface grinding the sides parallel, got a "finish ground" nut and max run-out is typically 0.005 or less now.

the pix are hardened/ground washers from a 1970's era Craftsman. these are far superior to the stamped variety - but appear to be 'obsolete' - any one know where they can be purchased?
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post #12 of 24 Old 12-07-2016, 03:08 PM Thread Starter
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*UPDATE*
I played around with different washers, even self-aligning spherical washers that are supposed to eliminate runout on bench grinders. My gauges would still show 0.02"-0.03" runout/wobble. I called Delta customer support and was on hold for roughly 40 minutes until I got a hold of someone. They said the maximum allowable runout is 0.015" and I should exchange it.

I did so, and immediately checked the blade before assembling the whole thing this time. The pictures show the readings on 2 different gauges after I made a complete rotation of the blade. So this saw seems within specs. I think I'll check the blades whenever I change them from now on too. I don't know if all of this is a big deal or not, but nice to learn something.
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post #13 of 24 Old 12-07-2016, 04:45 PM
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is run out a big deal?
uhmmm, yes, no, mebbe, if it bothers you, perhaps, and 'what's runout?'

the modern trend to thinner kerf blades is less effort required ie same hp = better performance.
less wood to chisel out of the kerf = less effort on the motor = less effort in the pushing, on and on.

checking the kerf width between "standard" and "thin kerf" blades, it's in the 10-15 mil range. so comma comma a thin kerf blade with 0.035 run out makes for more work/effort than 'ye old standard width kerf'

I've got some ancient carbide tip 10" blades from the 70's - head on they look like a supertanker compared to a canoe....

and since you're freshly starting out, lemme say this about that . . . a fyi if you will . . .
tooth design can make a huuu-mongous difference in working with wood.
todays 'combo' blades tend to be an AB (alternating bevel) design - super slick for all around stuff.
there's,,,, dunno, four-five major tooth designs - and bunches of 'sub-designs' - so the 'it's complicated' thing sorta' applies.

ripping 6/4 oak - a "triple chip" tooth pattern out-ripped the AB dozens to one.....
for half lap, cheek (& other) cuts a "flat tip tooth" design cuts (essentially) 90' corners - major bennie in instances

just be aware and do some research as projects arise - a blade is not a blade, thar' be differences out there . . .
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post #14 of 24 Old 12-07-2016, 05:09 PM
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I bet he meant 90 degrees to the front edge of the top like a T-Square.
I do not try to play guessing games with what someone wrote. I read just what they write.

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post #15 of 24 Old 12-07-2016, 06:05 PM
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*UPDATE*
I played around with different washers, even self-aligning spherical washers that are supposed to eliminate runout on bench grinders. My gauges would still show 0.02"-0.03" runout/wobble. I called Delta customer support and was on hold for roughly 40 minutes until I got a hold of someone. They said the maximum allowable runout is 0.015" and I should exchange it.

I did so, and immediately checked the blade before assembling the whole thing this time. The pictures show the readings on 2 different gauges after I made a complete rotation of the blade. So this saw seems within specs. I think I'll check the blades whenever I change them from now on too. I don't know if all of this is a big deal or not, but nice to learn something.
It's usually better to check run-out off the saw arbor directly, checking off the blade could give you errors from the flatness of the blade or arbor washer. That said, .002 is plenty acceptable off the blade, though anything you can detect without a tenths indicator off the arbor is too much for me

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post #16 of 24 Old 12-07-2016, 08:24 PM
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Post 11 above asks ......

Where can you get the original blade washers used on Craftsman and other table saws:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...asher&_sacat=0

"the pix are hardened/ground washers from a 1970's era Craftsman. these are far superior to the stamped variety - but appear to be 'obsolete' - any one know where they can be purchased"

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post #17 of 24 Old 12-07-2016, 09:13 PM
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You may have to adjust the track of the blade if your fence isn't square to the table or it could be the fence itself. Something like that..
Anyways...if you have either a bandsaw, scroll saw or even a jigsaw it might not be a bad idea to make a nice variety of push sticks and blocks from plywood or other material that are disposable and let the fast spinning blade chew those up instead of your fingers. My favorite push stick finally gave up the ghost after the bottom got down to a micro sliver of nothing . I had to learn that the hard way, but now I have several for various uses and they're much cheaper than the services of a skilled surgeon.. Don't be like me and think it's a good idea to screw the handle of your pushblocks into the base.. Somehow screws and nails seem to know how to find the blade.. Imagine that, eh?
Also make use of feather boards to keep pieces from jumping around all over the place..

I figured it's time to change my signature so hold your breath. This is it.
Impressive, huh?

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post #18 of 24 Old 12-07-2016, 09:36 PM
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nothing is "square" to anything

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You may have to adjust the track of the blade if your fence isn't square to the table or it could be the fence itself. Something like that..

.
The fence, the blade/carriage and the miter slots are all adjusted "parallel" to each other, and may or may not be square to the table's front edge.

The miter slots are used as the point of reference because they are milled into the table surface and are NOT adjustable, like the blade carriage OR the fence.
You adjust the blade/carriage parallel to the miter slot and then you adjust the fence to be parallel to the miter slots and no other way will work.

The answer to your question will only be as detailed and specific as the question is detailed and specfic. Good questions also include a sketch or a photo

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post #19 of 24 Old 12-07-2016, 11:32 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the extra info. I don't think I'd make a fancy push stick with a handle anyways (my favorite one is a piece of frame I use on the router table), but no screws or metal is good advice and I do have a scroll saw, plus, scrap wood.

The blade seems very parallel to the miter slots. I just used my Wixey digital angle gauge to square up the blade a little more to the table top, along with squaring up the fence.

I put a few coats of paste wax on the top. Might be polishing my demise : P

I did think of checking the blade carriage after I returned the first saw. I think 0.0015 of wobble is fine. I'd probably end up making it worse fiddling with things now.

Feather boards would be a good idea too.

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post #20 of 24 Old 12-08-2016, 08:51 AM
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Where can you get the original blade washers used on Craftsman and other table saws:
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...asher&_sacat=0
way out! thanks a bunch - didn't think about eBay.....
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