Valid8r

I'm having a lot of trouble with my saw (Delta Contractors) binding while cutting my cleats to hang cabinets. My blade is now 'perfectly aligned' as well as my rip fence. I've moved the fence to both sides of the blade and I still get binding. If I constantly shove a shim into the kerf cut, I can keep things going, but I still have trouble. Last wood tried was Poplar.

Just a thought, does everyone use 45 deg cleats or do some people use a less extreme angle?

Suggestions appreciated!

Thanks,
Jon

woodnthings

What blade are you using? You will need a sharp combination blade with 40 teeth or fewer to rip without binding at a 45 degree. That angle increases the depth of cut by about 50% cut it's like cutting a 1 1/2" board rather than a 1". There are many choices for blades of this type. Too many to list here, but search "tablesaw blade" here on this site.

What 10" combination blade is best?

bill

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If you're not making dust, you're gathering it. After I reread my own posts, I agree with myself even more.

Valid8r

Bill - I specifically changed to my Freud thin kerf rip blade (not sure of the tooth count off the top of my head) - I guess that was wrong? I certainly have a fine tooth blade that I use for most of my cross cuts, but... I'm surprised???

Thanks for any more thoughts on this.

Jon

rrich

Jon,
The cut that you're making is a rip cut. The blade that you need is one with raker teeth. (The tooth is flat across the cutting edge.) Typically a combination blade has eight sets of five teeth. (10" Blade) In each group there is a single raker tooth on the top of the large gullet. Then there are four alternating top bevel (ATB) teeth in the group. These blades are very good for the operation that you are attempting. A general purpose blade could work but the feeding is going to be difficult because of the lack of raker teeth.

As an alternate blade, a pure rip blade (24 or so Raker teeth.) would work as well.

When I asked the question about using French cleats to install cabinets, an instructor told me that 60° / 30° was a better choice. However he didn't say why or where to put the 60° piece. (Cabinet or wall.) I think that 45° would be just fine.

Finally if the kerf is closing up on you, it probably has more to do with the internal stresses in the wood being released than than choice of blade. You could always use the drill bit trick in a zero clearance insert as a splitter to solve the problem.

__________________
Use the right tool for the job.

Rich (Tilting right)
Huntington Beach, California
Remember that when we have the "BIG ONE" everything east of the Rockies falls into the ocean.

woodnthings

Just set the blade for a 90 degree rip and see how it cuts. I assume the wood is dry and is not closing back up after the sawcut binding the blade. This will tell you if it's the blade , the wood or the setup.
It has to be one of those. That's it for my opinion...good luck! bill
Last thought, does the motor slow down sufficiently to reduce the blade speed? This will effect the cutting ability of the blade. Is the belt slipping to reduce RPMS? Your motor HP is about 1 1/2 HP, correct? Also what is the thickness of wood? We can fix this! bill

__________________
If you're not making dust, you're gathering it. After I reread my own posts, I agree with myself even more.

Valid8r

Good suggestion on the 90 degree rip, but in general, I haven't had any problems doing straight rips like that. I'm only using 3/4" stock but I confess, Poplar always seems green to me and I don't have a moisture meter. I will try doing the 90 on the same Poplar that I am trying to cut with the 45 though to see if I have the same problem.

Thanks,
Jon

Valid8r

Rich - as to the drill bit trick, I'm not sure but can guess what it is, but is there any way to do that at a 45 degree angle?

Thanks,
Jon

rrich

Jon,

Thinking about what I did with the drill bit was very dangerous. I used a 3/32" drill bit as a splitter and only raised it about 1/8" above the ZC insert before gluing. And the ZC wasn't so ZC either due to the angle. I also used a hold down post cut. There was a lot of binding between the wood, splitter and hold down. AND with no through clearance for the push stick I had stop the saw before the cut was complete. (I have a paddle stop switch on the saw.) As I said, dangerous very dangerous, but then I was a bit younger and more stupid than I am now. )

Thinking about what you said... Contractor saw... Right tilt...

Make your cut with the fence on the other side of the blade so that nothing is trapped.

BTW - When making a bevel cut on a right tilting saw, part of the material being cut becomes trapped between blade and fence. Because it is natural for the cutting action of the table saw to lift the back end of the material being cut, the saw is more likely to stall. (The blade lifts the material being cut and jams it into the side of the blade which makes the material even more trapped.....)

__________________
Use the right tool for the job.

Rich (Tilting right)
Huntington Beach, California
Remember that when we have the "BIG ONE" everything east of the Rockies falls into the ocean.

Valid8r

Rich - thanks again. I did put my fence on the left of my right tilting saw and still have the problem. I'll keep trying, it doesn't seem like I am doing anything severely wrong and will work on tweaking my approach... I won't try the drill bit approach!

Thanks,
Jon

skymaster

Valid8r: Man it still sounds like one of only 2 things I can think of:
A your fence is not parallel to the blade
B the blade is no good.
That said try this: Just bevel the edges then set saw to 90 and just rip em in half, see if it works easier.
I PRESUME you are using featherboards to keep that piece from riding up with the blade right?

Valid8r

I confess it's a mystery to me. Fence is parallel to blade (measured with an A-Line-It), rip blade is a Freud, thin kerf rip, a couple of months old. Featherboards are in use also.

I'll keep trying.


Thanks,
Jon

Bob Willing

I am not sure if this is your problem, but make sure the saw blade gullets are well above the material. I had a problem with oak burning when I was ripping it and as soon as I raised the blade above the gullets the problem was gone. I had this idea in my head for years that the blade should just stick slighty above the wood and I read in "shop notes" to raise the blade above the gullets. If the gullets are not expose the material that is being cut get jammed in the cut. I made the French hangers using pine at 45 degrees last summer without a problem just keep the blade pointing away from the fence.

rrbrown

I'm thinking its the fence. I know you say its parallel to blade but is the tail end slightly furthur away. I think mine is set at like 1/16 or 1/32 further at the tail end. this allows the wood to pull away from the blade slightly hence keeping it from binding. It may have more of an effect since your cutting at a 45' angle. Sometimes we over think things and can't find the answer. Just my 2 cents

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Richard

Once A Marine Always A Marine.

Some choose to study history, but Marines choose to create history.

Valid8r

Richard - thanks for the tip. I used to have my fence set that way, but recently changed it back to 100% aligned to the blade. I'll give that a try though and change it for the 45 cut to see if it work.

Jon

Jim Tank

Make the cut with something stable that will not bind like clean particle board, if it binds then it's the fence, if it burns then it's the blade, if it cuts great then make the hangers out of particle board and throw the poplar in the neighbors yard. Happy sawing.

cabinetman

If angles are cut other than 45 degrees, the shorter length bevel goes on the cabinet, the longer length goes on the wall. The reason being that the seating length should not bottom out. The sharp edges on the members can be knocked off with a handplane.

For a 45 degree cleat system, I recess the back 1 1/8" so it will allow the two cleats to pull the cabinet tightly to the wall without the cleats bottoming out, and allow a little scribe on the carcass edges. Recessing the back even more can allow more scribe.

cabinetman

Jon,

Using a rip blade 24T or 32T should be adequate. You could just try doing two passes. I do have a few suggestions. First, crank up the blade very high. Not just to clear the gullets, but much higher, even all the way up. What happens on low sitting blades is that the wood will gather in the gullets and cause binding. Having the blade very high will also reduce the cutting angle to a more perpendicular cutting angle. This allows less contact that the blade has with the wood. Having the blade high also allows better cooling. Doing this will require you to use hold downs for the section against the fence, and a featherboard, but not beyond the start of the cut.

What will also help is to use a single belt to run the blade. If your pulleys are 2 or 3 belts, try it with just one. A single belt will transfer more energy and use less power than multiple belts (works good for average to low powered saws).

Valid8r

Thanks everyone, I'll give all this a try this weekend and let you know what I find out.

Much appreciated.

Jon

GeorgeC

???????????

What is ZC?

George

cabinetman

It stands for "Zero Clearance, it's actually a shortened version of ZCI, which stands for Zero Clearance Insert. What it refers to is the flat plate that surrounds the table saw blade. You probably forgot, but it's on our list of acronyms.