Dvoigt

Hello all,

I'm relatively new to the wood working scene. I have always done some stuff with wood, I did the whole subwoofer box for my car and took woodshop in school. My mom used to do crafts, which involved my dad cutting alot of wood and his dad made his living as a pattern maker.

I'm starting to get into it more and i have some tools and was basically given 4 huge boxes of old mahogany wood that is good for small projects. Now I want to get into it more and build more things. Just for a hobby really, nothing professional.

I currently have an old Craftsman table saw that I hate.... it is too small and hard to work with and the fence has been the cause of more scrapped wood and frustration. I would really like to have a table saw that incorporate a router table on it. Space is a premium since I keep my tools in a 2.5 garage along with 2 cars.... so it must be easily movable and be capable of giving me good cuts

I have been looking at used stuff, but having been able to find just what i'm looking for, and when I have it has been gone before I can get it.

I would like to find a nice used setup of around $400. Any advise you can provide would be great!

Thanks

premierrenovation

Just picked up a JET saw with a 52" fence. $400 on a close out, left over from last year. I got it at Force Machinery in NJ. You can Google them and see if they will ship. It is a great value and is worth lots more than that.

knotscott

$400 should buy a very nice used saw, and maybe even a good new one. Check the local classifieds, Craigslist, Ebay, etc....ya never know. Also, it might help to put your general geographic location in your profile...someone might spot a deal for you.

Rockler has a full size cast iron 1.5hp Jet contractor saw on clearance for $400....worth a look.

Dvoigt

That is a good idea, I updated it... I'm in Michigan.

I had looked at the Rockler one but shipping being another $100+ is a turn off. Plus I'll want to get going with the router right away too. I just missed another one on Craigslist that I think would have met my needs.

Dvoigt

There are a few table on craigslist in my area, our opinions?

http://detroit.craigslist.org/tls/508559336.html
This one is a craftsman and has a router table extension, which i want, the model is 315.228390, the price in decent.

Then there is this JET one:
http://detroit.craigslist.org/tls/507886065.html
I looked it up online and it sounds nice and i could put a router in the extension table, but it is double what I'm looking to spend

Again, I'm looking for a hobby table that will probably only see loght weekend work.

There have been 2 table saws with router included that have come and gone before I could get any pictures of them, so their price most have been right.

Thanks for all the advise.

TexasTimbers

Even for hobby I would not want less than 2HP. You are still going to be cutting some thick stock every now and then and those 1 1/2 HP motors will bog down pretty bad on thicker hardwoods unless your feed rate is real slow, then you risk burn and more cut marks at slower feed rates.

Even if you only cut thick stock on occassion, those occassions might be an hour or more of cutting. it's then that you will appreciate having a little more HP available. Even 2 HP will leave you short sometimes but there is a noticable differnece between 1 1/2 and 2 HP motors, and going to a 3HP is a big jump in price.

If you are patient, you can find 2HP machines just as cheap as the 1 1/2HP ones. Remember the only difference between a "contractor" style saw and a "hybrid" is that the one has an exposed motor beneath and the more expensive hybrids have a meatl "skirt" around it which makes it look more beefier and makes it look like a "better" saw. they are both the same animalk all other tings being equal, with the hybrid getting a slight nod for better safety. As far as less dust on the motor I doubt it makes a difference. I would avoid that JET hybrid you posted. I think you can get a much better deal on a saw with more HP if you just keep looking a little longer.

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Ken Johnson

My advice would be spend more than $400. Unless of course you can get a great closeout deal on a good saw. I have the Ridgid contractors saw and I love it. Plenty of power and very accurate. Whatever you get, I would plan on spending around $100 on a good blade to replace the cheap piece of that all saws come equipped with. You can get so much more power and performance out of any table saw with a good blade. Let us know what you end up buying.

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Joe Lyddon

Don't put much on the router leaf thing... most, from what I've seen, they are more trouble than they're worth...

It's much easier to just make a small table, etc.

If you get that Jet, you will probably be better off in the long run.

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woodman42

I have an extension on my tablesaw that has a router lift in it and I love it. I have never had any problems with it.
I guess it would be a personal preference.
You just have to spend the money and get one thats gonna hold up and be strong enough to do want you want it to do.

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Dvoigt

Space in my garage is premium and I like the having the extra table length to handle larger pieces and doubling it as a router table just seems smart to me.

Joe Lyddon

Most what I've seen, it's a pain to get the right plate(s) installed, if they CAN be installed, to end up with a good functional router table.

I guess if you can find a good flexible one, it works out.

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Joe Lyddon

I used to think that way too...

I guess it depends if you can get what you want and use it the way want to use it...

I saw a great fold-up router table on the Fine Woodworking site... will see if I can find it... if interested...

http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworki....aspx?id=28007

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rob.hough

I have a craftsman with the router table extension. I can't figure out how to mount my Bosch under that thing... :(

I would watch Craigslist like a hawk. I was checking 2-3 times a day before I found my Craftsman saw. Nice cast iron top, no rust... Not a 3hp saw or anything but it gets me by. I can tell already that I'm going to eventually replace it but I can think of some other tools that I want to get first before I consider doing so. I figure this saw will last me at least another year, maybe two. That was worth the $200 I spent on it.

TexasTimbers

I respect Joe's opinions, but I will stand by mine that the Jet, at $800 is overpriced unless it has a real nice fence on it. Then, you are still stuck with the 1 3/4 HP which is arguably only 1 1/2 the way the chicom fudge things like that.
$800 can buy alot of saw if you - as rob says - watch craigs like a hawk.

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knotscott

I've got to respectfully disagree with two of the above points, and I'll explain why b/c some of it is a matter of physics, not opinion. Although I have nothing against a little extra power now and then, it's not a necessity for even a semi-serious hobbyist IMHO.

1. With good blade selection and a properly aligned contractor saw or hybrid, there's been nothing that I've struggled much to cut. I've gone through 2-3/4" hard maple, and QSWO to full blade height at a surprising clip, as well as 3" elm and several others. Influencing factors - The saw is a Craftsman 22124 hybrid, but my GI contractor saw would do nearly as well, as should most decent saws in this class. It's as well aligned as I can get it, the blade is a good quality TK 24T FTG ripper that's clean and sharp, the wood is flat and straight, and the saw has a fairly efficient drive system for it's motor hp. I wouldn't want to rip hundreds of linear feet at those thicknesses, but it's handled all I've needed it to without much effort.

2. Your description of the hybrid is an oversimplification that overlooks a few of the physics issues. I agree that hybrids are not and will not compete head to head with a full blown industrial grade 3hp cabinet saw....those saws are more robust all the way around and offer every design and construction advantage, but they do require 220v, and start at ~ $1k new vs $400 (used is obviously a variable). However, the hybrids offer many advantages over the traditional contractor saw design...bringing the motor inside the cabinet offers many advantages. For starters, it shortens the belt significantly, which reduces vibration and increases power transfer efficiency. Most of the hybrids utilize a poly-v serpentine style belt as opposed to the traditional v-belt, which again increases power transfer efficiency...in a nutshell they get a bit more umph at the blade from roughly the same size motor. You've already pointed to the safety advantage...the location of the belt on a contractor is outside the enclosure adds some additional risk even with guards in place, and alot more risk with them removed. Dust collection is obviously superior in an enclosure.

When a saw motor is tilted, it raises up in an arc that also increases it's vertical height. The outboard motor poses some risk of hitting or lifting anything in it's path....it's avoidable with caution, but it happens to many, and when it does, it often knocks the alignment of the saw out. The location of that outboard motor also creates a fair amount of leverage force because of how it cantilevers off the back. Saws with connecting rods are far more likely to rack or twist with the motor cantilevered off the back than they are when tucked inside, and even those with a one-piece carriage are still exposed to additional torque from the increased leverage. There's also a not-so-small issue of space. The hybrids simply have a smaller footprint which is desirable in many small shops. The Orion-made Steel City and Craftsman hybrids have cabinet mounted trunnions that no contractor saw offers....they're significantly easier to align, and add significant mass. There's often some additional mass with the fuller enclosure too, and some increased stability.

Unless you need to remove the outboard motor often for transport or storage, just about every advantage I can think of goes to the hybrid design. The motors are virtually all TEFC now, so dust exposure is not an issue. Even the retail prices are evening up with a lot of overlap. As far as I can tell, every contractor saw with an outboard motor, would undergo some improvement if the motor were moved inside the cabinet. To back that statement, I'll point out that every major player except for Ridgid is currently offering at least one hybrid, and many have several. (Delta, Jet, Steel City, Shop Fox, Grizzly, Craftsman, Sunhill, Woodtek, General International, DeWalt, and Hitachi come to mind). It appears to me that the hybrid's time has come, and for good reason. Sentimental attachments to our existing saws aside, I'm open for rebuttals, discussion, and am even curious if I've missed any design virtues that a traditional contractor saw may offer over a hybrid. Thoughts anyone?

Dvoigt

what about this one? http://detroit.craigslist.org/tls/509284591.html he doesn't have any pics but says it is model 315.288390. I couldn't find info on the web about it.

knotscott

$400 seems steep to me for that saw. That saw is from the Ryobi era of CMan saws. The aftermarket fence is decent, but doesn't justify that much money IMO....it's no Biesemeyer (or even Vega for that matter). It might be worth a look to see what kind of shape its in....if it's mint, it might be worth a lower offer. Find out if it has solid cast iron wings, and see what extras they're offering...mobile base, blades, inserts, etc. Hopefully some former owners can chime in and let you know about any quirks of that saw.

$400 should buy a very nice used saw....that Cman isn't a "pounce on it!" buy IMHO.

Buffalo Bilious

Hey dude... no need for shipping, there's a Rockler store over in Royal Oak. On Woodward, north of 12 Mile.

I was just in there on Thursday. That Jet is one honkin' HEFTY saw for that price. Really nice, IMO. The manager told me they're flying out the door. I'm trying to justify getting one as an X-Mas present to myself... the only downside I'm grappling with is that I've got space limitations like you do, and that saw will definitely use up a nice chunk of real estate. (and a mobile base is a must-have, the thing's gotta weigh 250 pounds)

As for a router table, I've got the little Ryobi job. Got the table AND the router for $99 at Home Depot.

It's good for the basics...roundovers, rabbets, etc. Works fine so far, but it's likely too small for any tricky stuff. But, I can stash it away in a cabinet when not in use.

jeff194307

I have a Delta contractor saw with the optional fence and I love it. This saw has never "bogged down" on any thing that I cut.

Dvoigt

Sweet... i had no idea... i'll have to go take a look over there...