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-   -   My dado set over my table saw's capacity? (http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/my-dado-set-over-my-table-saws-capacity-30245/)

Yamster 09-26-2011 03:04 PM

My dado set over my table saw's capacity?
 
I have purchased Onsrud dado set a little while ago from eBay, after reading all the nice reviews about it (from here!).

I haven't had a chance to actually use it so far, but the other day I finally got a chance to give it a try.

I needed to take out 3/4" deep 6" wide notch off the edge of long boards, several of them.

I first tried to use a jig saw, and ended up getting pretty ugly cut... I don't know how other people get nice looking cuts with jigsaw... I just can't do it. I actually had to trash that one board... So, I thought to myself, hey why don't I use the dado set which I never had a chance to use for the rest of the boards?

Well, long story short, I wasn't still able to use my dado set, and I ended up using my router with flush trim bit (with a template)...

The problem was... I realized (just then, which is stupid) that I didn't have an insert plate for the dado... I know, I know.. everyone says it's easy to make, but you still have to make one.

Anyway, it still gave me chance to try these blades on my table saw, and I noticed something interesting.

According to the instructions that came with my set, it says the maximum width of the dado cut is 7/8". It's almost a full inch, which is great.

However, my table saw's arbor is only 1 1/4" long (from the inside flange). And my outside flange and the nut measure 1/2" tall when stacked together. So.. if you do the math, that only leaves me 3/4" space where I can put these dado blades in, which is 1/8" shorter than the maximum width the set can be used for...

Well, I guess 1/8" is not really a big deal. I can always cut the dado in two (ore more) passes if I need a cut wider than 3/4". However, I am still curious if there's a way to make this work (to use the full 7/8" dado).

Is it acceptable to replace the arbor to something a little longer? My guess is that it probably is not a good idea since there's a good chance my arbor is only this long (like my saw's capacity). Even if it is possible/allowed, I don't think I'm up to the challenge and extra work of replacing the arbor, especially when the other alternative, cut it in one more pass, is so much easier and won't cost me a penny.

What about using a thinner flange and nut? You know, if I can find a flange and nut each of which is like 1/16" thinner than the ones I have, than I will have 1/8" of more space avaialbe with my current arbor. Well, I guess that still means I would need to buy them, but I am just curious how others are dealing with it when their arbor turns out to be just a little to short for the dado set.

Thank you.

woodnthings 09-26-2011 03:20 PM

try this
 
You don't need a flange washer. You do need at least 1 thread showing at the end of the arbor. Stack 'em all on there and see what you get.

Replacing the arbor will not help and it's very expensive and you'll just another one the same size in order to have it fit correctly.

A tenon jig will work for making tenons 4 passes, 2 vertical , 2 shoulder cuts per end. You shouldn't run into a situation that call for a 7/8 wide dado across a panel, since plywood in now less than 3/4" . ;) bill

firemedic 09-26-2011 04:02 PM

Put em on and see... The carbide is wider than the body of the blade. You probably won't get to 7/8 but with out the shims you'll get pretty close...

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...

knotscott 09-26-2011 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodnthings (Post 248667)
You don't need a flange washer. You do need at least 1 thread showing at the end of the arbor. Stack 'em all on there and see what you get....

+1. You should be able to get the whole stack on without the arbor washer. This is a very common and recommended practice by many manufactures...just be sure the arbor threads are fully seated as Bill described.

jschaben 09-26-2011 04:23 PM

I respectfully disagree with everybody. :eek:
OP didn't indicate what saw he has but many, if not all of the direct drive saws haven't got the moxie to reliably drive an 8" dado stack at more than 3/4" hence short arbors. Matter of fact, my Ridgid 4510 won't even take an 8" dia dado with any sort of stack on it. If I'm not mistaken, I don't believe the Bosch 4100 will take a stack greater than 3/4" either and I know the Ryobi BTS 20 and 21 won't.
:icon_smile:
Besides, the difference between 3/4" and 7/8" on a 6" dado is only one more pass

woodnthings 09-26-2011 04:33 PM

I agree with your disagreement
 
Seems to me the question was about fit initially. So the second issue is one of power. Depending on the depth of the dado, usually less than 3/4" and often more like 3/8", just about any saw should be able to accomplish it.

I have a Bosch 4000 10" and it has plenty of power in my experience ripping wet PT 2xs.

As you said the make and model of the saw wasn't mentioned so the response is only as complete and detailed as the question.
Vague questions either require more questions or get generalities for answers..... doin' our best here. :thumbsup: bill

jschaben 09-26-2011 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodnthings (Post 248687)
Seems to me the question was about fit initially. So the second issue is one of power. Depending on the depth of the dado, usually less than 3/4" and often more like 3/8", just about any saw should be able to accomplish it.

Hi Bill, while power is a secondary issue, my supposition is that mfg are playing CYA on their warranty liability by limiting the fit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodnthings (Post 248687)
I have a Bosch 4000 10" and it has plenty of power in my experience ripping wet PT 2xs.
bill

Will it take a stack greater than 3/4"??

My Ridgid will 4510 only take a 6" dado set and a max of 3/4" stack which is pointed out in the manual. That limits me to a max dado of about 1-1/2 deep, which I have yet to need. Someday I may want to half-lap some 4x4's but I don't see that happening on a small table saw anyway. More than likely would use a circ saw and router.

Inquiring minds ya know:icon_smile:

Mandres 09-28-2011 10:30 AM

I've been debating whether to buy a 6" or 8" set due to the power issue. I have a 1.5hp Craftsman hybrid TS (22114), do you guys think that's enough muscle to spin an 8"? I'll likely never set up the stack more than 3/4" wide.

cabinetman 09-28-2011 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by woodnthings (Post 248667)
You don't need a flange washer. You do need at least 1 thread showing at the end of the arbor. Stack 'em all on there and see what you get.

It would be nice to get a bit more than one thread, but I've just used the nut too.
Quote:

Originally Posted by woodnthings (Post 248667)
You shouldn't run into a situation that call for a 7/8 wide dado across a panel, since plywood in now less than 3/4" . ;) bill

I do all the time when using hardwoods (more than 3/4"), or 1" plywood (or thicker), or 1 1/8" particle board.. But, I prefer to use a router instead of a stack dado.







firemedic 09-28-2011 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandres
I've been debating whether to buy a 6" or 8" set due to the power issue. I have a 1.5hp Craftsman hybrid TS (22114), do you guys think that's enough muscle to spin an 8"? I'll likely never set up the stack more than 3/4" wide.

The review I did on the Onsrud 8" stack was done using a 1.5hp grizz... It worked out fine. I initially recorded it as a 3/4 hp on the review, I need to make a notation on it to correct that.

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...

woodnthings 09-28-2011 11:02 AM

I used a 6" for years
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandres (Post 249131)
I've been debating whether to buy a 6" or 8" set due to the power issue. I have a 1.5hp Craftsman hybrid TS (22114), do you guys think that's enough muscle to spin an 8"? I'll likely never set up the stack more than 3/4" wide.

I was making cabinets and shelves and I didn't need a deep cut, more than 1/2", for shelving and partitions. Tenons can be made on the table saw or bandsaw where a deeper cut may be required rather than using a dado head to remove stock with multiple passes.
So, depending on your needs and methods a 6" will be fine. :thumbsup: bill

BTW I have an Freud and Oshlun 8" set now and a 8" wobble blade. The Oshlun makes a great set for the money and Ebay has had some great bargains.

dbhost 09-28-2011 11:29 AM

A 7/8" dado set is huge. Most bench top, and contractor type saws I know of simply don't have the grunt to drive it. FWIW, my Ryobi BT3100 says max dado width 3/4, and calls for a 6" dado stack instead of 8" even though a LOT of users of the BT3x00 saws are running 8" stacks... Go figure...

I am always amazed at the questions about should I get a 6 or 8" dado. How many of us are going to run a dado halfway through a 6x6 post? I have yet to need a dado deeper than 3/4", and either 6 or 8" will work fine for that... Can somebody explain what operation would need an 8" dado?

knotscott 09-28-2011 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandres (Post 249131)
I've been debating whether to buy a 6" or 8" set due to the power issue. I have a 1.5hp Craftsman hybrid TS (22114), do you guys think that's enough muscle to spin an 8"? I'll likely never set up the stack more than 3/4" wide.

A 6" is easy to spin and sometimes cheaper, but there are more 8" sets to choose from so there are more potential deals. Your 22114 should no issues spinning either one. I had a 22124 that spun an 8" with no problem. Buy the best set you can afford whether 6" or 8".

jschaben 09-28-2011 01:11 PM

The way the Freud website recommends determining use of a 6" or 8" dado set is that the 6" should be used on any saw that cannot be converted to 220 operation.. ie, universal motor saws.

Mandres 09-28-2011 02:51 PM

Great, thanks guys! I'll do a little deal hunting on a nice 8" set in that case. Is it possible to get something at least workable (good, flat bottom grooves) for $50?

firemedic 09-28-2011 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mandres
Great, thanks guys! I'll do a little deal hunting on a nice 8" set in that case. Is it possible to get something at least workable (good, flat bottom grooves) for $50?

:yes:...

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/o...-review-27896/

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...

knotscott 09-28-2011 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firemedic (Post 249188)
:yes:...

http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f12/o...-review-27896/

~tom ...it's better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and remove all doubt...

There are currently two of these with zero bids on Ebay...

Mandres 09-28-2011 04:49 PM

haha a deck screw? That's commitment to thorough testing. Thanks for the tip, I'm going to grab one of the $35 sets today.

Yamster 09-29-2011 04:02 PM

Thank you for all your answers!
 
Thank you for all your answers!

Among other things I've learned from reading the responses, it's funny that it never occurred to me to look up the manual of my saw until I see some people saying something like "according to the manual..." LOL

So, I did look it up, and it says "Do not attempt to stack dado blades thicker than 13/16 (20mm) Do not use dado blades larger than 8
(200mm) in diameter." This means I will be 1/16" over the limit if I stack up all the blades and shims, which I will probably never have to as many people have mentioned.

By the way, I have Delta 36-979. Next time I post a question, I will try to remember to include all the details that may be helpful to answer the question.

Have a nice day.


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