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making table with mortise and tenon

10K views 23 replies 10 participants last post by  nsherve 
#1 ·
I'm looking into making a new kitchen table with all joints being mortise and tenon, no screws, nails, glue, etc...
With this in mind, how do I secure the table top? The table will be built out of pecan from a big tree that fell down.
Thanks for any information provided.

Nate
 
#21 ·
Everything you want to do is at least technically possible by hand: people have been making tables for a long time, and power tools have only really been around for a couple hundred years. I made a pair of frame-and-panel toy chests using nothing but hand tools (well, and pre-dimensioned lumber, which counts for a lot), which is a much more complex project.

Basically, there'll be 4 legs and a top...haha. It'll be pretty simple. I'm at work overseas, so I can't upload any plans, really. The legs will be 4x4 posts, the top will be from 2x6's (or 2x8's, can't remember). The apron will be from the same 2x's. It is hardwood, from a pecan tree that fell over on my property.
Ok, here we're starting to get some useful information!

The sliding dovetail has crossed my mind. I may use that, but I am looking for something I can do without use a power tool. And, yes, I am certain I want to do it. Why do you ask?

As far as joining the 2x's together, I'm not sure about that yet, either. I have thought about t&g, but I am open for suggestions. I'm not in a hurry. We're having a new house built, so it would just be sitting in the barn for a while if I did it now.
Sliding dovetails can be cut by hand. I haven't tried it yet, but that's more lack of interest than anything else. In theory, it's pretty simple: cut the socket sides using a saw, then chisel out the waste; cut the dovetail piece with a saw and chisels; drive them together with a mallet. Simple isn't the same as easy, though. :grin:

Anyway, here's my advice. I'm picturing something like this, so all my advice is based on that.



1) Use glue. Yes, you could do all of this without glue, but it's not worth the effort. Nails have been in use since Roman times at least, and screws since at least the 1700s. Hide glue has been available substantially longer than those, and these days you can buy it in a bottle that doesn't require cooking your own.

2) For the top: Your best bet is to joint the edges of the boards, then glue them together. Glue joints are typically stronger than the surrounding wood, so that's all you need to hold it together. If you really insist on no glue, you could do something like a pegged breadboard end, but I can assure you it will break sooner or later. I've made the mistake of making a long-grain connection like that, and it didn't last long. I suppose you could also do a pegged frame and make the inner surface out of boards floating in grooves, like a giant frame and panel door, but I suspect you'd come to regret the gaps in it pretty quickly.

3) Fastening the legs to the top: Traditionally, you'd probably put a skirt around the table, fastened in some way that wouldn't prevent wood movement in the top, and fasten the legs to that. If you insist on not using screws or nails, you could fasten the apron to the legs with sliding dovetails, then put pegs in the top of the leg for the table top to sit on. A tabletop 2" thick will weight quite a lot, so gravity would probably hold it in place just fine. You could also do a joint like this to hold the apron to the legs:



It's more work, but probably easier to do. The two aprons interlock, and sit in a cross-shaped mortise in the top of the leg. The peg would probably best go in the inner corner, I think... that feels like it would probably provide the best durability.
 
#5 ·
Basically, there'll be 4 legs and a top...haha. It'll be pretty simple. I'm at work overseas, so I can't upload any plans, really. The legs will be 4x4 posts, the top will be from 2x6's (or 2x8's, can't remember). The apron will be from the same 2x's. It is hardwood, from a pecan tree that fell over on my property.
 
#8 ·
The sliding dovetail has crossed my mind. I may use that, but I am looking for something I can do without use a power tool. And, yes, I am certain I want to do it. Why do you ask?

As far as joining the 2x's together, I'm not sure about that yet, either. I have thought about t&g, but I am open for suggestions. I'm not in a hurry. We're having a new house built, so it would just be sitting in the barn for a while if I did it now.
 
#11 ·
gonna need glue

I'm looking into making a new kitchen table with all joints being mortise and tenon, no screws, nails, glue, etc...
With this in mind, how do I secure the table top? The table will be built out of pecan from a big tree that fell down.
Thanks for any information provided.

Nate
You have 3 issues that I can see.
1. You will need to edge join the 2 x 6's for the top and straight, square edges and some glue is all you need for that.... a some clamps long enough to span the whole thing.

2. You will need to glue the tenons into the mortises for the skirt and legs.

3. You will need to fasten the top to the skirt with something .... mechanical clips, wood blocks inside, removable dowels into the skirts from the underside, or some other ingenious system...? Dovetails would be tons of work and getting it accurate would be a whole 'nother issue. :frown2:The top has to "float" to allow for wood movement, but not come off when you lift it to move it for cleaning underneath.... or maybe not? It may just need to be "located" on the skirt and lift on or off?
 
#13 ·
I've never done it before, if that's what you're asking. That's why I'm asking. As far as patience, I have that....I'm not going to jump right into it, I'll try it out on some junk wood first. As far as understanding, I've never done it before. That's why I'm asking. From reading about it (and looking at plans, watching videos), I really don't think it'll be hard to do. I think it looks pretty simple. It's not going to be a fancy table. My wife wants an "old fashioned farm look" dining table.


The m&t for the legs and apron, I'm pretty sure, don't need glue. I'm going to use pegs to secure them. The table top may need it.
By the way, I'm not arguing with anyone (in case it seems that way). I do appreciate the answers from y'all.
 
#14 · (Edited)
I've never done it before, if that's what you're asking. That's why I'm asking. As far as patience, I have that....I'm not going to jump right into it, I'll try it out on some junk wood first. As far as understanding, I've never done it before. That's why I'm asking. From reading about it (and looking at plans, watching videos), I really don't think it'll be hard to do. I think it looks pretty simple. It's not going to be a fancy table. My wife wants an "old fashioned farm look" dining table.


The m&t for the legs and apron, I'm pretty sure, don't need glue. I'm going to use pegs to secure them. The table top may need it.
By the way, I'm not arguing with anyone (in case it seems that way). I do appreciate the answers from y'all.
Your idea to practice on junk wood is a good one. You will need some hefty chisels, aka mortising chisels. Regular carpenter's chisels won't work well.

I don't think "pegs" will hold well. If you really want "glueless joinery", then I would use wedged through tenons. If that's your desire, then fine, but if it were me, I would glue them unless they were wedged.

 
#20 ·
What about using a mortise and tenon through the dining table with the tenon exposed through the top, could that work?

I basically know a whole lot of nothing yet so I could be way off on that but I'm learning as much as I can.
 
#22 ·
What about using a mortise and tenon through the dining table with the tenon exposed through the top, could that work?

The top of the legs can be mortised into the top, but you would still have to put the top together without glue. This would require a pegged assembly.
Also, mortised legs through the top would require additional bracing for strength. This is why so many of the big old tables were built with trestles for legs. The trestles were pegged together and the table tops were pegged into the tops of the trestles.
Think of an old dining table for a monastery.
Doors were made the same way.
 
#23 ·
When I think of an "Old fashioned farm" table, the ones I'm thinking of were all made with glue and nails. I picture planks nailed to the frame like a picnic table...

But anyway, you can cut a sliding dovetail by hand - I have done it. Cut the walls of the slot with a saw, then clean it out with a chisel or router plane. I'd make the skirts on the side of the table that runs perpendicular to the grain extra tall, and turn that part into the dovetail that slides into the slot in the table top. You can make the long tail with just a chisel, or maybe a saw and chisel. If you taper the slot slightly (that's getting tricky with hand tools), the joint will get tighter as you seat it, so it might stay together without glue. If you did glue it, you'd only want to glue it at the tight end to allow for seasonal movement of the top.

Drawbored mortise and tenons are quite sturdy without glue, so I'm sure that'd be fine without glue, if that's important to you.

I guess if you didn't want to glue up the top either, you could maybe just attach each plank with that sliding dovetail skirt board. Though I'd bet it will show gaps between the boards unless you use glue. Not sure I'd want that in a kitchen table.
 
#24 ·
I made a working table in the barn while i was home on leave, using m&t with pegs, just to see how it would end up. It was very easy to do... Of course, I was doing it with pine, not pecan. But, it is very sturdy, with no wiggle at all. I just used plywood for the top, so I didn't get any practice with that...
If I were to use glue to secure the boards together, will there be any issues of expansion causing splits in the grain? .... since the glue itself will not expand/contract.
 
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