Howard Ferstler

I recently saw a lengthy video ad for the Kreg pocket tool device.

I have been using biscuits for years and one thing the ad did was disparage the entire concept of biscuit joinery, dowling, and tongue and groove. I can see the point and the Kreg device looked very competent in some areas. Of course, they made the various projects look easy as can be. It rarely works out that way with any project I have tried.

Anyway, I would greatly appreciate some comments here from anybody who has had experience with that Kreg joinery technique or has talked to others who have had either good or bad luck with the approach.

One thing I did think about was what to do when the specialized drill bit wears out. If you sharpened it with a Drill Doctor machine its length would change slightly. Also, is it so esoteric that you must purchase replacements only from Kreg?

One other point involves the screws, which the ad indicated were specialized Kreg designs. Can other brands be used? Seems like that should be OK.

Howard Ferstler

Boardman

I've got one and I think it's a great bang-for-the-buck tool. I keep finding more uses for it.

It does however require good clamping of the part together before you drive the screws, or else there may be slippage. The settings Kreg reccommends don't allow the point of the bit to penetrate the piece with the pocket. I always go a bit deeper to make the hole go all the way thru. With it NOT through the screw pushes some wood out and may cause movement of the piece.

The drill bit is a problem though, in the sense that the wider portion of the bit can't really be sharpened by the average owner, and a new bit is like $16 or so. But it's available at the retailer usually.

The flat portion on the bottom of the Kreg screw is pretty integral to making it tighten well. Cone shaped screw heads can drive too far, not really tighten, and split the wood sometime. Although they're a bit pricey, I'd only use Kreg screws.

All in all, I'd still spend the $100 I did for the complete set. Makes some things sooo much easier.

mike65072

I only discovered pocket joinery this year and I think it is great. No more dowels or biscuits for me. I have learned that setup and clamping is critical (as with most other joinery techniques). I like the ease of use and I've had great success with my indoor and outdoor projects. I buy the Kreg screws in bulk to save a few bucks, but I'm sure any similar design/length screw would work. The bits are unique and a bit pricey, but they seem to stay sharp a long time. I started with a small kit and eventually ended getting a larger kit as well (on sale, couldn't pass it up), so I have 2 bits and they should last a long time.

GeorgeC

Is this what you are talking about?

KREG POCKET HOLE TOOL

I do not see how that can replace buscuits, dowels or tongue and grove.

George

user4178

I'm with George on this one, I find it hard to believe that it can totally replace dowel and biscuit joints. I do however think it has it uses under certain circumstances like all tools, so it would probably be nice to have one, you know you one can never have enough tools. The thing that has kept me from buying one is I think it's way over priced considering a good majority of it is plastic.

firehawkmph

If you look around we had a couple of threads on this a few months ago, good reading. I have been using the kreg jig since they came out. I have both the early edition and the later master set. I use it for more things than I ever used biscuits and dowels for, but that' just me. The only limiting factor is whether or not you can let the oval shaped hole show. If it can be hidden, I use it. I have used them when edge glueing boards for raised panels, putting cabinets together, fireplace surounds, and a host of other things. I am still using the same two drill bits, and they are still working well. I use mainly kreg screws, but I have used other brands that are available from suppliers like McFeeleys. I usually by the kreg screws when I am at the Hartville Hardware tool sale for 20% off. I love this tool and don't hesitate to use it.
Mike Hawkins

smitty1967

I've done the same thing, with similar results. I can't see the sense in drilling a pilot hole for a fastener without it having the correct location in which to start.

I have a couple packages of Kreg screws, of which they are obviously quite proud. When I've used these up, I think I'm going to go with a regular old cabinet screw. They being pan head, they well not pull through like a taper head screw, as Boardman describes.

One other note...the package on the kit I bought claims "everything you need to get started immediately," and the photo on the box showed a workbench setup including a ViseGrip locking clamp with flat (parallel) jaws. Guess what wasn't included in the $100.00 kit?

Somewhat misleading, I'd say....but overall, I'm pleased with the functionality of this tool. I'll use it alot, I think.

regards,
smitty

joesdad

Love my pocket screws...I have no use for the fancy $150 kit. The basic starter kit does what I need it to do. A stop collar on the bit is a must.

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Boardman

Yeah...I think Kreg was using a bit of hyperbole in saying it can replace biscuits and dowels.

They should have said "can replace biscuits and dowels in SOME applications."

I was kinda bummed when I opened my $100 kit and found it was nearly all plastic. But in the time I've had it, I've come to think that in terms of benefits, the payoff for that $100 tool is far greater than the $100 I've spent on other tools. If I had it to do over again though, I'd probably buy the simpler version

Leo G

I started with the $52 kit, a two hole pocket jig, a vice grip clamp and a drill bit w/stop collar. I used it for a few years and then had a melamine kitchen to make and had hurt my shoulder. So I went ad got the Kreg Foreman. At $800 it is a pricey unit. But I am a professional woodworker and the cost will be offset soon by virtue of time vs labor. I have use the pocket joinery in almost anything I can think of that is one sided. It is great for making jigs. The best feature about the joinery is that once the screw is set the joint is ready to take on the next step instead of waiting for the glue to dry. I have just recently made a bunch of wainscoting and staircase paneling, it worked wonders for this. Especially with the angled joints. I've always had a tough time with these trying to use clamps.

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Joe Lyddon

Pocket Hole screws can be obtained from McFeeley's at a very reasonable price...

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GeorgeC

How do you use this tool when edge gluing boards?

Seems like an awful lot of work for a simple task. And you must be working with thick boards.

George

Boardman

I've never used them for edge gluing for just that reason - too much work for a task that can be done faster with glue and clamps. And since you're driving the screws from the bottom, if you will, you can't see if the top surface is lining up correctly.

They really come into play on things like face frames, or any other non-edge joining connections. Inthose types of applications they ARE a lot quicker.

Kenbo

I use pocket hole joints on a regular basis, but I also use biscuit joints as well. I don't think that the pocket hole joinery will ever replace buiscuit but it definately has it's place in woodworking. I love both methods of joinery.

TheRecklessOne

I think maybe because of my age I'm a fan of the speed and versatility of the kreg jig. It's kind of my generation's nature to want to do things faster with less down time. I hope that doesn't sound like I'm putting down the old dogs because I've got mucho respecto for anyone that I can learn from.

I've used the kreg jig to make face frames that I've previously used dowels and I'll never turn back. I've used the kreg to join multiple boards in order to make wider stock and I'll never turn back there either. I've even used the jig to attach a 2x4 in a wall with a small hole in the top and bottom of the drywall.

I only own the R3 kit and I use any of the clamps I already own. I keep it my truck with my regular carpentry gear. I know I've seen metal kreg jigs in the past, and the drill bit that comes with it does suck when it comes to staying sharp. The indicator showing the settings for material thickness has to be set 1/16" to 1/8" shorter that it recommend so it will pierce the end of the pocketed stock.

I'm actually hoping Santa will bring me the master kit for Christmas...LOVE the kreg jig!!

Tweegs

I don't use it for edge gluing and yes, it is a lot of work.
The system is designed for 1/2 and 3/4" material. They have different screws for length and different threads for hard or soft wood.

I don't use it much, but that's just me. If I were building a shop cabinet, I'd be all over it. In fact, I need a new router table and probably will use this system to build it. For something that will go in home though....wouldn't consider it, but that is a matter of preference over performance.

firehawkmph

GeorgeC,
I have used my kreg for edge gluing and it is simple. line your boards up the way you want them to end up. You only need to drill a few holes for the first pair and then for each successived board. I have the master set, (mine did come with the vise grip clamp, Smitty, bought at Hartville Hdrw. tool show). Mine is mounted on a piece of plywood about 12" x16". Drill your holes, add a little glue and using the vice grips to align the boars, shoot the screws in. Wipe off any glue, send them through the planer if necessary and if they will fit. If not sand to prep for cutting raised panel, route raised panel. Putting the panel together with the screws is literally a five minute job, if that. I wouldn't do this on a panel if you didn't want the slots to show on the inside. Kreg has a good video which shows a lot of different project that can be done with it. Worth taking a look at. Mine came with the master kit. For face frames, I don't see how you could do it easier or quicker and eliminate all the clamping and waiting time. Every time I have a need for using it, it is one of those tools that draws a smile in my book. Kind of fun to use, not a chore.
Just my .02.
Mike Hawkins

mike65072

I couldn't agree more Mike. Traditional joinery is fine, but IMHO pocket joinery is just easier and faster for the majority (not all) projects.

John in Tennessee

for ham fist-ed people like me like me. No it's not perfect but it'll make earlier projects come out better,

Gus Dering

The pocket hole joinery system is a must in any shop. Of coarse we'll still need a biscuit once in a while but I'm dead in the water without the pocket hole.
I use a Castle machine for this now. Check out the link Oh guess ya can't do that here, or I'm just lame
Anyway search Castle pocket hole tool if you want. It's an awesome tool. There is not a cabinet shop without one in my area.
Back in the day I made one with a router and a drill. Still have it in the storage container. Might be fun to show it off if anyone is interested.
But then I'll have to figure out how to post a picture