Joiner or no joiner - Woodworking Talk

rcp612 · 10-30-2009, 01:27 PM

Let me begin by saying that I was born with a left hand and a right arm to just below the elbow.
That sort of limits my abilities but I have found ways around most of these restrictions during my 61 years.
Now for my question.
LOML and I are down-sizing to a retirement community which means I need to reduce my woodworking tools to a 10'X12' shed that will also house my lawn mower, yard tools, etc. The question that I have involves my joiner. I have always bought rough lumber then faced 1 side then run it through the planer. Since I always face joint the “cupped” face and only enough to get a good enough surface to support it on the planer tables, I'm now wondering if the joiner is actually necessary?

It seems as though running the piece through the planer, cup down, should plane the convex face flat then, by flipping it, I could plane the opposite face parallel to the first. After getting the faces flat and parallel, I can edge joint the wood either at the router table or, actually, on the table saw.
Is this just a theory, or will it work?
By selling my joiner, I can save more valuable floor space for other things more necessary to me.
Thank you in advance for your recommendations.

TS3660 · 10-30-2009, 03:13 PM

I'm no expert but it seems that planer tables are pretty short compared to jointer tables. But, if they were long enough to support the board at both bottom ends, with the high spot up and in the middle, then the feed roller would not hit. You'd have to push it through by hand. And you'd also have to adjust it lightly. And if you put it with the ends bowed up, then there would be no feed as it got past the ends. Like I said though, I'm not an expert by no means.

dbhost · 10-30-2009, 03:19 PM

A jointer is not a necessity, it is however a very big niceity. (Is that a word?)

You can use a planer jig for what you are wanting to do. Another option I have seen (and am doing myself) is stacking my bench top tools up the wall on basic closet hardware and mount boards. I have a benchtop jointer. It works GREAT! Look on the Wood Whisperer website for a video called "The Jointer's Jumpin" and you will see Marc Spagnulo walk you through not only jointers, but alternative jointing methods, including planer sleds.

FWIW, I have seen plenty of guys in 10x12s. It's tight but doable. You may want to forget about the RAS, big lathe, floor model jointers, big drill presses, and cabinet saw, instead opting for bench top sized tools. Dust collection is typically by shop vac, but some of these setups use full on DCs.

Think in 3D, and minimize where you can. It'll be fine. I am planning to move my shop, with the bigger stuff that I do have, into a 12x16 as soon as I can scrounge up the finances to get that built...

NathanT · 10-30-2009, 03:57 PM

Running a bowed board through a planer will give you a thinner bowed board.

However, building an edge jointing jig and/or a facing jig for your planer isn't that difficult.

Take a look at this site, some good ideas here:
http://www.toolcrib.com/blog/2009/04...and-resources/

The most important part of a facing jig is the adjustable screws, which prevent the board from flexing while moving between the rollers.

Julian the woodnut · 10-30-2009, 04:53 PM

A thickness planer won't correct a bowed board, that is unless you make a planer sled and run the board through that way. To joint an edge after planing a face, you can just make a jig and use the table saw or circular saw.

woodnthings · 10-30-2009, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcp612

..... down-sizing to a retirement community which means I need to reduce my woodworking tools to a 10'X12' shed that will also house my lawn mower, yard tools, etc. The question that I have involves my joiner. I have always bought rough lumber then faced 1 side then run it through the planer. Since I always face joint the “cupped” face and only enough to get a good enough surface to support it on the planer tables, I'm now wondering if the joiner is actually necessary?

It seems as though running the piece through the planer, cup down, should plane the convex face flat then, by flipping it, I could plane the opposite face parallel to the first. After getting the faces flat and parallel, I can edge joint the wood either at the router table or, actually, on the table saw.
Is this just a theory, or will it work?
By selling my joiner, I can save more valuable floor space for other things more necessary to me.
Thank you in advance for your recommendations.

If it's a 6" It's on the small side. Planers are generally 13" and up. Yours is? As was stated above you can make a jointing sled for your planer.
In your case I would make the sled first, try it out and see the results. You may be surprised! The main advantage is the greater width capacity. The next advantage for your situation is that it's self feeding, a big plus! You may need some extension tables if your planer has the short ones. However, by the time you get all through making the add ons, A 15" JET or GRIZZLY planer may be a better choice and sell what you have. Sorry,I don't know your situation, but that would be my advice if I could only have the one tool. Not to say the add ons won't work just fine, that's why I said make one first.

bill

Tony B · 10-30-2009, 08:19 PM

Roger
Try to find a good lumber supplier that will flatten the board for you. It will save you the space in your shop and save you some time also. Usually S2S and straiight line rip is not that expensive. I dont know how large of a town Howard is, so you might stop at a few cabinet shops and find out where they get their hardwood. A large amount of cabinet shops and furniture makers buy their stock S2S and straightline ripped and ready to rock and roll. I had a joiner in my big shop way back when and we never used it. I bought an 8" joiner about a month or so ago and still havent used it. It's nice to have one but you can live without it in most cases.

rcp612 · 10-31-2009, 08:50 AM

Thanks for all the quick replies.
I like the FWW plans from the link provided by NathanT. I think that really is the answer I needed.
I understand about everyone's thoughts with planing a bowed board but, if the concave is in the width, not the length, I think it can be done. Most of the lumber I've gotten, if bowed end to end, I've cut down to shorter pieces giving me straighter stock to work. It's the cross-grain bowing I'm concerned with most.
Thanks to all, I think I'll be alright now.

Gerry KIERNAN · 10-31-2009, 10:51 AM

I have used agreat deal of rough lumber which I run through my planer, both to flatten, and to edge joint. I have a jointer, but I don't use it much anymore.
I would think, that if you need to downsize the planer is more versatile than the jointer.

Gerry

mics_54 · 10-31-2009, 12:20 PM

rcp, Ive been building cabinetry, furniture, buildings etc for 35 years and never needed a jointer.

woodnthings · 10-31-2009, 03:49 PM

I'm pretty good with and an adz....chainsaw.....jointing plane......chisels....come on give us a clue here.

What's your method, table saw?

bill

mics_54 · 10-31-2009, 10:51 PM

table saw of course. :)

GeorgeC · 11-01-2009, 08:07 AM

This is not a direct answer to your question but it may help. A 10x12 shed is going to be very difficult to work in.

If you have the time before you get rid of your tools and move, have you considered making a mockup of that future shed in your current location? You could then experiment with what tools will be able to fit and what size operations you may be able to handle. A jointer that is mobile and kept in a corner may not be a in the way of any other things you do. I do not know if you foresee handling 8' long boards on your table saw. If you do that may be your limiting operation.

George

rcp612 · 11-01-2009, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeorgeC

This is not a direct answer to your question but it may help. A 10x12 shed is going to be very difficult to work in.

If you have the time before you get rid of your tools and move, have you considered making a mockup of that future shed in your current location? You could then experiment with what tools will be able to fit and what size operations you may be able to handle.
George

Good thought and, yes, I have done that.
My current shop happens to be 12'X20' so, I just laid a 2X across the middle of the shop to see what could be done within that boundary.
Then I started thinking about which tools get the most use and which were questionable. That's when the thought that a jointer could really be done away with, and thus, this post.

ponch37300 · 11-01-2009, 11:35 AM

I bought a 6 1/8" jointer about 6 months ago and then found a good deal on a 15" industrial planer. I had priced rough lumber and the savings were pretty big so I bought the tools to work with rough lumber, knowing I would make the money back pretty quick compared to buying oak at a box store or similar. When I went to order my first rough lumber I was informed that they can abrasive plan both sides for .08 cents a board foot for 24 grit and .12 cents a board foot for 60 grit. And they will straight line rip one side for .06 cents a board foot. So for my order of 200 board feet of oak they charged me 36 bucks to plan/joint it to 60 grit. To me this is well worth it, I don't have to take the time or make the mess of planing/jointing the boards. I still use my jointer for certain things but not for planing/jointing most of the time. If I would have done some more checking into this I probably wouldn't have bought a jointer or huge planer. I've even thought about selling them but there are some times that they are nice to have around. Like mentioned above call around and try to find a lumber supplier that will plan/joint your boards for you. Might be a really good option in your situation.