Face Frame Mitering - Woodworking Talk

Tom5151 · 03-02-2009, 01:43 PM

I have what is most likely a very basic question to most of you.

I am going to be using birch ply for a table top I am doing. This is the first time i am using ply for a table top. I typically glue up solid wood boards but this time wanted to try something different.

My question is, what is the trick for face framing the edge of the plywood? I mean I have the basic concept down but have never done it so not sure about the mechanics of it. Do I make the edging the exact same width as the plywood? What about mitering the corners? I want to make it look as close to perfect as possible. So do you all have any tricks or helpful techniques you use for mitering the corners of the frame? And what about fastening the edging to the ply? I don't want to do any edge banding just yet so I am assuming just glue the frame members to the ply?

I know these are awfully basic questions. I have done some reading but I know you all can most surely fill in the gaps of my head knowledge with your practical experience.

Thanks,
Tom

Gene Howe · 03-02-2009, 02:02 PM

Hi Tom,
Today, I'm applying edges to a walnut plywood dresser top. I will be using 4"X 3/4" stock. You may be using 3/4"X3/4" solid stock....??
At any rate, I'll be routing a 1/4"X 1/2" deep slot (full lengths) in the ply and the solid stock. Then I'll miter the stock, insert a 1/4" thick spline and glue it up. In my case, due to the 4" width of the solid stock, I'll also mill a stopped slot for a spline in the mitered edge.

With a thick 3/4"+ edge, you can add a router profile, too.

Gene

BORKBOB · 03-02-2009, 02:10 PM

Hi Tom,

I think the width and thickness of your edge stock is an aesthetic
call. I taught myself when trimming out kitchens to "sneak up" on the final length. It often meant 2-3 trips to the miter saw but it eliminated trips back to the shop to get more trim

Tom5151 · 03-02-2009, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gene Howe

Hi Tom,
Today, I'm applying edges to a walnut plywood dresser top. I will be using 4"X 3/4" stock. You may be using 3/4"X3/4" solid stock....??
At any rate, I'll be routing a 1/4"X 1/2" deep slot (full lengths) in the ply and the solid stock. Then I'll miter the stock, insert a 1/4" thick spline and glue it up. In my case, due to the 4" width of the solid stock, I'll also mill a stopped slot for a spline in the mitered edge.

With a thick 3/4"+ edge, you can add a router profile, too.

Gene

Hi Gene,

Thank you. So you use the spline method it sounds like. I will be using 3/4 X 3/4 stock as you mentioned. I'll probabaly do some type of tongue and groove or biscuits for my first shot at this.

What is your trick for measuring and cutting the mitered corners? I have done mitered corners before but not in this mannner. Anything i should be aware of or pay closer attention to?

Tom5151 · 03-02-2009, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BORKBOB

Hi Tom,

I think the width and thickness of your edge stock is an aesthetic
call. I taught myself when trimming out kitchens to "sneak up" on the final length. It often meant 2-3 trips to the miter saw but it eliminated trips back to the shop to get more trim

Got it.....that's what i kind of figured but wasn't sure if there was a trick for getting the miters perfect.......where do you take your initial mneasurements from? For example lets say you are cutting the frame member for the long dimension of a table top. Do you measure the length of the plywood top and use that measurement for the "short" edge of the mitered frame when cutting?

johnv51 · 03-02-2009, 03:02 PM

I cut one end of the trim piece to a 45 degree angle first then hold it against the plywood and mark the other end. I cut it a little long then sneak up on the exact length after I cut some of the other edge pieces, doing the same with each. I've found for most cabinet tops a flush glue joint with Titebond II is usually plenty strong without adding splines or tongue & groove.

Tom5151 · 03-02-2009, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnv51

I cut one end of the trim piece to a 45 degree angle first then hold it against the plywood and mark the other end. I cut it a little long then sneak up on the exact length after I cut some of the other edge pieces, doing the same with each. I've found for most cabinet tops a flush glue joint with Titebond II is usually plenty strong without adding splines or tongue & groove.

Thank you sir....

That is EXACTLY what i needed to know.....i appreciate your help.

CivilEngineer13 · 03-02-2009, 03:12 PM

Just to add to the 45 comment. Make sure it is 45.0 degrees or you will get little gaps. Maybe I'm just a little paranoid, but I never trust the little marks on the miter saw. I always check it with a quick square.

Tom5151 · 03-02-2009, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CivilEngineer13

Just to add to the 45 comment. Make sure it is 45.0 degrees or you will get little gaps. Maybe I'm just a little paranoid, but I never trust the little marks on the miter saw. I always check it with a quick square.

Yes I hear you for sure.......I am actually planning to cut the miters on my TS. I have an Incra miter guage that really helps with accuracy. I have have a cheapo Ryobi MS that does okay for most things but I don't think I'd trust it for this.

johnv51 · 03-02-2009, 03:17 PM

I also built a jig to help me use a flush trim bit to level the trim piece to the top of the plywood. It's just a long box, about 40' long and around 6" square. I cut a shallow rabbet at the top edge to make room for the trim piece. I clamp the plywood with the glued on trim to the box so that the edge of the board is flush with the edge of the top of the box. I now have a wide enough surface to steady the router while flushing up the trim piece.

Tom5151 · 03-02-2009, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnv51

I also built a jig to help me use a flush trim bit to level the trim piece to the top of the plywood. It's just a long box, about 40' long and around 6" square. I cut a shallow rabbet at the top edge to make room for the trim piece. I clamp the plywood with the glued on trim to the box so that the edge of the board is flush with the edge of the top of the box. I now have a wide enough surface to steady the router while flushing up the trim piece.

LOL....you anticpated my next question.....thank you....do you leave the trim a little proud intentionally?...like maybe 1/32 or so?

johnv51 · 03-02-2009, 04:43 PM

Yes. Usually 1/16 to 1/32. I've also seen folks just clamp another board to the plywood piece to provide a wider surface for the router base.

Tom5151 · 03-02-2009, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnv51

Yes. Usually 1/16 to 1/32. I've also seen folks just clamp another board to the plywood piece to provide a wider surface for the router base.

yes i was thinking about that method as well.....the only problem i see is if the trim is 1/32 or so proud on both sides of the ply it would be hard to get the clamped board flush to the plywood for the first flush trim operation. Once one side is done the other would be a breeze but make a little shim under the board or something for the first side.....

johnnie52 · 03-02-2009, 06:24 PM

I haven't had much luck trying to use either biscuits of strips in the edges of plywood. Usually I make a rabbit in the edging and after mitering the ends, use glue and screw it to the under side of the ply. I have to adjust either the height or allow for the top to overhang the front and sides, but its what works for me.

johnv51 · 03-02-2009, 07:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom5151

yes i was thinking about that method as well.....the only problem i see is if the trim is 1/32 or so proud on both sides of the ply it would be hard to get the clamped board flush to the plywood for the first flush trim operation. Once one side is done the other would be a breeze but make a little shim under the board or something for the first side.....

Cut a 1/16 to 1/8 deep rabbet in the clamped board to allow space for the trim piece.

sawduststeve · 03-03-2009, 12:40 AM

I have made a lot of cabinet doors and face frames using 3/4 oak veneer and then facing it with hard board. I have a porter cable plate joiner and I have cut 100's of biscuits with it. It does a nice job of aligning the two boards and still allows them back and forth moment to get perfect end alignment. I always look at my 45's as being heel and toe, for framing I want the heels of both cuts to be exactly the same length as the length of the board I am framing. And I would agree with the other posts that having your saw or miter gauge at an exact 45 is crucial. But for me biscuits are the way to fly