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-   -   Beginner just starting to get into wood working. (http://www.woodworkingtalk.com/f2/beginner-just-starting-get-into-wood-working-58321/)

CaptainMarvel 12-23-2013 01:22 PM

I've always been of the philosophy that KNOWLEDGE IS POWER ... and so, over the last year or so, I've found a number of (in my opinion, anyway) helpful online resources for researching and learning various woodworking/fabricating processes, ideas, tips and techniques for the beginner (which still includes myself).



START WOODWORKING.COM --> http://www.startwoodworking.com/how-to
This is an excellent resource for the beginning woodworker or DIY'er - with loads of "How To" instructions and instructional videos to look through and learn from.



WOODWORKING FOR MERE MORTALS --> http://www.woodworkingformeremortals.com/
This has to be one of the most entertaining resources out there for the beginner/novice woodworker. Like many of us, Steve Ramsey is a Home Hobbyist/DIY'er who has created (and continues to create) entertaining -- yet VERY informative/educational - instructional videos on the topic of DIY woodworking. (You should also subscribe to his YouTube Channel). Seriously, Steve Ramsey's approach helps to alleviate much of the intimidation factor for many woodworking issues, tools and processes.



WOODSMITH.COM
Woodsmith is the home of Woodsmith magazine, the ultimate source for clear, detailed, easy-to-follow woodworking project plans anyone can build. Follow along, step-by-step, as you build heirloom furniture that any craftsman would be proud of. Woodsmith also brings you Woodsmith Tips delivered free by email each week to sharpen your woodworking skills with helpful tips and techniques you can use immediately, including the best how-to woodworking videos.

And speaking of woodworking video, America's favorite and most widely carried woodworking television show, the Woodsmith Shop, has lots of great online extras and previews on its web site you can access from here. There is also a convenient station locator to find out when and where we're on in your area. And if you'd like to improve your shop and build great money-saving woodworking tools, jigs and fixtures, don't forget to check out ShopNotes while you're there.


NOTE:
Yes, I cut-and-pasted that from the Woodsmith website - but I figured they say it better than I could paraphrase http://forum.arcadecontrols.com/Smil...fault/wink.gif. I do know - from personal experience - that you can request a free copy of the Woodsmith magazine from the website (CLICK HERE) as well as obtain a great abundance of additional information and resources via THIS PAGE





WOODSMITH'S 150 TIPS & TECHNIQUES DVD - http://www.woodsmithstore.com/tipsdvds.html
I purchased/received this 3-DVD set (for $24.95) and - in my personal opinion - these DVDs are a fantastic resource for the beginning/intermediate level DIY'er (insofar as various woodworking methods and techniques go) - especially for those who, like myself, learn much better via visual example. The DVDs include informative video segments from "The Woodsmith Shop" TV program (usually found on PBS channels) for a great many woodworking techniques - including router work, joinery, table saw, layout/measuring, clamping, sanding, etc. (You can see a complete listing of topics for each DVD by clicking the "See Tips for . . " link above each DVD image on the page linked above).



TOOL SELECT.COM
--> http://www.toolselect.com/
If you're considering a power tool purchase and have your heart set on particular name brand items, ToolSelect is an excellent resource for product comparisons and reviews. Of particular usefulness is TOOL SELECT TV - where you can watch video reviews of various power tools and products from professional contractors and woodworkers ... VERY helpful and informative.




HARBOR FREIGHT TOOLS --> http://www.harborfrieght.com
Let's face it, for those of us who are neither professional-level contractors nor "rolling in it" wealthy, cost/expense is a significant factor in acquiring many of the tools needed to partake in our projects. In my opinion, it's hard to beat the selection and significant savings one can realize via Harbor Freight Tools. You will find a myriad of mixed reviews across the internet as to the "quality" of the tools Harbor Freight sells (especially the power tools). However, speaking from my own personal experience as a Home Hobbyist/DIY'er - having purchased and used several power tools through Harbor Freight - many (if not most) of the tools you can purchase through Harbor Freight are every bit as comparable, powerful and practical as their much pricier "brand name" counterparts.

Furthermore, if you sign up for Harbor Freight's newsletter, you will receive frequent email notifications of special discounts and sales being offered. Also, you can always find 20% to 25% Harbor Freight discount coupons in most any DIY and/or woodworking magazines (i.e. WOOD, Family Handyman, American Woodworker, Woodsmith, etc.)




There are a great many more helpful resources out there with fantastic information for woodworkers at any skill level. I'm certain there are several that I am forgetting at the moment.




:smile:

Al B Thayer 12-23-2013 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by michiganwoodman
I've subscribed to woodsmith since they first came out (dating myself) . Got tired of all the advertisement in the others. They have binders they sell which help you organize . And a updated yearly alpha list of the projects. Over the years I've found many good projects to build. Naturally not every issue is to your liking but they have tips on woodworking which are helpful also.
And in the back a list of where you can buy the hardware sometimes from them, which makes the project roll along.

I second that but miss the charter membership by a couple of years.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.

Al B Thayer 12-23-2013 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel
I've always been of the philosophy that KNOWLEDGE IS POWER ... and so, over the last year or so, I've found a number of (in my opinion, anyway) helpful online resources for researching and learning various woodworking/fabricating processes, ideas, tips and techniques for the beginner (which still includes myself).

START WOODWORKING.COM --> http://www.startwoodworking.com/how-to
This is an excellent resource for the beginning woodworker or DIY'er - with loads of "How To" instructions and instructional videos to look through and learn from.

WOODWORKING FOR MERE MORTALS --> http://www.woodworkingformeremortals.com/
This has to be one of the most entertaining resources out there for the beginner/novice woodworker. Like many of us, Steve Ramsey is a Home Hobbyist/DIY'er who has created (and continues to create) entertaining -- yet VERY informative/educational - instructional videos on the topic of DIY woodworking. (You should also subscribe to his YouTube Channel). Seriously, Steve Ramsey's approach helps to alleviate much of the intimidation factor for many woodworking issues, tools and processes.

WOODSMITH.COM
Woodsmith is the home of Woodsmith magazine, the ultimate source for clear, detailed, easy-to-follow woodworking project plans anyone can build. Follow along, step-by-step, as you build heirloom furniture that any craftsman would be proud of. Woodsmith also brings you Woodsmith Tips delivered free by email each week to sharpen your woodworking skills with helpful tips and techniques you can use immediately, including the best how-to woodworking videos.

And speaking of woodworking video, America's favorite and most widely carried woodworking television show, the Woodsmith Shop, has lots of great online extras and previews on its web site you can access from here. There is also a convenient station locator to find out when and where we're on in your area. And if you'd like to improve your shop and build great money-saving woodworking tools, jigs and fixtures, don't forget to check out ShopNotes while you're there.

NOTE:
Yes, I cut-and-pasted that from the Woodsmith website - but I figured they say it better than I could paraphrase . I do know - from personal experience - that you can request a free copy of the Woodsmith magazine from the website (CLICK HERE) as well as obtain a great abundance of additional information and resources via THIS PAGE

WOODSMITH'S 150 TIPS & TECHNIQUES DVD - http://www.woodsmithstore.com/tipsdvds.html
I purchased/received this 3-DVD set (for $24.95) and - in my personal opinion - these DVDs are a fantastic resource for the beginning/intermediate level DIY'er (insofar as various woodworking methods and techniques go) - especially for those who, like myself, learn much better via visual example. The DVDs include informative video segments from "The Woodsmith Shop" TV program (usually found on PBS channels) for a great many woodworking techniques - including router work, joinery, table saw, layout/measuring, clamping, sanding, etc. (You can see a complete listing of topics for each DVD by clicking the "See Tips for . . " link above each DVD image on the page linked above).


TOOL SELECT.COM --> http://www.toolselect.com/
If you're considering a power tool purchase and have your heart set on particular name brand items, ToolSelect is an excellent resource for product comparisons and reviews. Of particular usefulness is TOOL SELECT TV - where you can watch video reviews of various power tools and products from professional contractors and woodworkers ... VERY helpful and informative.

HARBOR FREIGHT TOOLS --> http://www.harborfrieght.com
Let's face it, for those of us who are neither professional-level contractors nor "rolling in it" wealthy, cost/expense is a significant factor in acquiring many of the tools needed to partake in our projects. In my opinion, it's hard to beat the selection and significant savings one can realize via Harbor Freight Tools. You will find a myriad of mixed reviews across the internet as to the "quality" of the tools Harbor Freight sells (especially the power tools). However, speaking from my own personal experience as a Home Hobbyist/DIY'er - having purchased and used several power tools through Harbor Freight - many (if not most) of the tools you can purchase through Harbor Freight are every bit as comparable, powerful and practical as their much pricier "brand name" counterparts.

Furthermore, if you sign up for Harbor Freight's newsletter, you will receive frequent email notifications of special discounts and sales being offered. Also, you can always find 20% to 25% Harbor Freight discount coupons in most any DIY and/or woodworking magazines (i.e. WOOD, Family Handyman, American Woodworker, Woodsmith, etc.)

There are a great many more helpful resources out there with fantastic information for woodworkers at any skill level. I'm certain there are several that I am forgetting at the moment.

:smile:

Oh you had me till the Harbor Freight section.

Don't buy cheap tools it ends up costing you a pile of money and a lot of grief.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.

Hawkeye1434 12-27-2013 01:21 AM

I agree with Al Harbor Freight has some great metal stuff Wrenches, and bench top lathes, screwdrivers, organizers, spring clamps, simple stuff like that but not electronics other than that it's not worth going that cheap but not woodworking tools for the most part Listen to Al buy the best tools you can you will always be happier with them

CaptainMarvel 12-27-2013 02:13 PM

True . . . though as I stated within my original offering:

Quote:

. . . for those of us who are neither professional-level contractors nor "rolling in it" wealthy, cost/expense is a significant factor in acquiring many of the tools needed to partake in our projects. In my opinion, it's hard to beat the selection and significant savings one can realize via Harbor Freight Tools. You will find a myriad of mixed reviews across the internet as to the "quality" of the tools Harbor Freight sells (especially the power tools). However, speaking from my own personal experience as a beginner Home Hobbyist/DIY'er - having purchased and used several power tools through Harbor Freight - many (if not most) of the tools you can purchase through Harbor Freight are every bit as comparable, powerful and practical as their much pricier "brand name" counterparts.

I stand by my statements wholeheartedly. Not one of my HF purchased power tools have let me down yet - and, as a beginner, taking advantage of the cost-savings compared to the premium one often pays for a "name brand" is advantageous to learn how to use various power tools ... before one spends much more money on a "name-brand" that does, essentially, the same thing.

Al B Thayer 12-27-2013 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel
True . . . though as I stated within my original offering:

I stand by my statements wholeheartedly. Not one of my HF purchased power tools have let me down yet - and, as a beginner, taking advantage of the cost-savings compared to the premium one often pays for a "name brand" is advantageous to learn how to use various power tools ... before one spends much more money on a "name-brand" that does, essentially, the same thing.

When it comes to tools like Porter Cable, Bosch, DeWalt and other tools. There is a large difference in quality and performance when compared to Harbor Freight. Sanders will sand faster, flatter and longer. I bought two PC sanders over 25 years ago and both are still running today. Other tools will out preform in ways that can be significantly measured. Seems that what you don't know is in fact hurting you. These better tools also feel much better in your hands and extend comfort and safety.

Here is why a cheap sander will not preform as well. Lighter and have a shorter stroke. Which translates into vibration rather than work force on the wood. Far less power and labeled at higher ratings that can't be verified by the unsuspecting customer. Lower power is a good thing for the tool because it will run a little longer before burning up or wearing out the bearings that also have been lower quality also reducing the tools ability to do the job.

Name brands get tested and rated against each other. Most times the difference isn't very much. The competition between them serves to bring us a better product.

Al B Thayer

Nails only hold themselves.

jmaichel 12-28-2013 02:18 AM

I recommend wood and pop woodworking

frankp 12-29-2013 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al B Thayer (Post 556365)
When it comes to tools like Porter Cable, Bosch, DeWalt and other tools. There is a large difference in quality and performance when compared to Harbor Freight. Sanders will sand faster, flatter and longer. I bought two PC sanders over 25 years ago and both are still running today. Other tools will out preform in ways that can be significantly measured. Seems that what you don't know is in fact hurting you. These better tools also feel much better in your hands and extend comfort and safety.

Here is why a cheap sander will not preform as well. Lighter and have a shorter stroke. Which translates into vibration rather than work force on the wood. Far less power and labeled at higher ratings that can't be verified by the unsuspecting customer. Lower power is a good thing for the tool because it will run a little longer before burning up or wearing out the bearings that also have been lower quality also reducing the tools ability to do the job.

Name brands get tested and rated against each other. Most times the difference isn't very much. The competition between them serves to bring us a better product.

Al B Thayer

Nails only hold themselves.

No offense, Al, but my experience contradicts this entirely. Granted, I don't churn out projects the way some of you folks can and do, but I have cheapo tools like HF stuff that has lasted nearly 15 years now, some longer. I have only had one tool up and quit on me, or make any significant difference in my output quality. That was a $20 router I bought off ebay. I still have the motor, but the housing cracked apart. I got what I paid for in that instance, but I'll agree with CaptainMarvel on this one. For the beginner, especially one who doesn't know a lot and is on a budget, buying 3 or 4 tools within the budget that get the job done will be far better than breaking the bank on a single tool that won't allow the newbie to do as many things.

As far as not knowing what you don't know and being hurt by it, I've been doing this for the better part of that 15 years, actively, and off and on for some 25 years. I know what I need to get the job done and what won't do and I still buy HF tools (and other cheapo stuff) when it's a reasonable trade for what I want.

As of now the most expensive tool I own (by price I paid) is actually my router. It cost me a full $125-150 more than it's nearest competition. The only reason I bought it is because I got a free table and lift that was >$300 to replace. At that point it was pretty close to break even to buy the router or a new lift so I figured I'd buy the router and have two.

As usual, people have varying experiences with this stuff. We have to all shop within our own personal budgets and needs/wants. I don't buy expensive tools (usually) but I can do an awful lot with the low-end tools I do have. It's not going to be professional quality, but that's far more about me than about my tools.

ryan50hrl 12-29-2013 12:59 AM

Frank, it won't do any good. There are a few guys that think every beginner needs to go into debt to buy the best of the best or not woodwork at all.

Then there are the rest of us that make perfectly good projects with less than top grade tools.

JMartel 12-29-2013 01:42 AM

My most expensive tool is my bandsaw that I just got for $575 brand new. Besides that, and my $500 planer, everything else has been under $200.

Schramm 12-29-2013 10:02 AM

If I were you I would just start with the basics, you can get books but Kreg makes a great series of DVDs 2 of which are Gary Striegler videos. I know Gary well and he has honestly helped me hone my talents through his videos and classes. When I started back in the 80's I would of loved to have YouTube, DVDs or anything but now with a click of a button there is a video (some very good) on just about anything that you want to know.

What kind of experience do you have if any? Do you own any tools and if so what?

joedad3 12-29-2013 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schramm
If I were you I would just start with the basics, you can get books but Kreg makes a great series of DVDs 2 of which are Gary Striegler videos. I know Gary well and he has honestly helped me hone my talents through his videos and classes. When I started back in the 80's I would of loved to have YouTube, DVDs or anything but now with a click of a button there is a video (some very good) on just about anything that you want to know. What kind of experience do you have if any? Do you own any tools and if so what?

No real experience and no tools yet. I am taking a class on finish carpentry which will get into cuts angles that sort of stuff. I can find anywhere local where I can take like shop classes. There seems to be no financing in the area for adult classes where I can get some hands on time. My father has a shopsmith he no longer uses. I'm gonna start with that and see where I can go.

joedad3 12-29-2013 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joedad3
No real experience and no tools yet. I am taking a class on finish carpentry which will get into cuts angles that sort of stuff. I can find anywhere local where I can take like shop classes. There seems to be no financing in the area for adult classes where I can get some hands on time. My father has a shopsmith he no longer uses. I'm gonna start with that and see where I can go.

Can't find

Al B Thayer 12-29-2013 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frankp
No offense, Al, but my experience contradicts this entirely. Granted, I don't churn out projects the way some of you folks can and do, but I have cheapo tools like HF stuff that has lasted nearly 15 years now, some longer. I have only had one tool up and quit on me, or make any significant difference in my output quality. That was a $20 router I bought off ebay. I still have the motor, but the housing cracked apart. I got what I paid for in that instance, but I'll agree with CaptainMarvel on this one. For the beginner, especially one who doesn't know a lot and is on a budget, buying 3 or 4 tools within the budget that get the job done will be far better than breaking the bank on a single tool that won't allow the newbie to do as many things.

As far as not knowing what you don't know and being hurt by it, I've been doing this for the better part of that 15 years, actively, and off and on for some 25 years. I know what I need to get the job done and what won't do and I still buy HF tools (and other cheapo stuff) when it's a reasonable trade for what I want.

As of now the most expensive tool I own (by price I paid) is actually my router. It cost me a full $125-150 more than it's nearest competition. The only reason I bought it is because I got a free table and lift that was >$300 to replace. At that point it was pretty close to break even to buy the router or a new lift so I figured I'd buy the router and have two.

As usual, people have varying experiences with this stuff. We have to all shop within our own personal budgets and needs/wants. I don't buy expensive tools (usually) but I can do an awful lot with the low-end tools I do have. It's not going to be professional quality, but that's far more about me than about my tools.

I'm not sure what your post has to do with my post you quoted.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.

Dopalgangr 12-29-2013 11:20 PM

Lots of info on here already. I agree with the priors and would add Family Handyman magazine. Though not solely a woodworking mag they have had some great wood projects and plans. Keep an eye on slickdeals.net they have sales on mags every now and then. I picked up 4 yrs of it for $15. Also ALWAYS check craigslist first. I have gotten almost new quality tools at great prices. Some people go out and blow their life savings on tools and decide later that this isn't for them and want to sell off their collection. I also scored some deals from wives that divorced their woodworker husbands and just wanted to sell off their stuff to get rid of it. Remember it's cheaper to keep her, fortunately I got a good one :)

Al B Thayer 12-29-2013 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan50hrl
Frank, it won't do any good. There are a few guys that think every beginner needs to go into debt to buy the best of the best or not woodwork at all.

Then there are the rest of us that make perfectly good projects with less than top grade tools.

Come on Ryan. Your putting words in my posts that aren't there. The bottom line is when someone gives bad advise to a beginner about cheapo tools and then tries to pass them off as, "just as good". You know and I know they aren't. Franks experiences are anecdotal and true for him. He also states he doesn't crank out many projects either. Bet you won't trade your PC ROS for anything less?

But what about the guy that buys a table saw and says, "I read about it from the guys, it was supposed to be good". Best off if we place a warranty and quality where a warranty and quality is due.

BTW. I bought a cheapo router a few months ago. The little tiny Ridgid. I just love it. Has a little light. Has a soft start and 7 speed settings. Fits in my hand well and I love the switch. Would I recommend it? Not without a disclaimer. It's a throw away. But I really love it, so far.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.

Al B Thayer 12-29-2013 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dopalgangr
Lots of info on here already. I agree with the priors and would add Family Handyman magazine. Though not solely a woodworking mag they have had some great wood projects and plans. Keep an eye on slickdeals.net they have sales on mags every now and then. I picked up 4 yrs of it for $15. Also ALWAYS check craigslist first. I have gotten almost new quality tools at great prices. Some people go out and blow their life savings on tools and decide later that this isn't for them and want to sell off their collection. I also scored some deals from wives that divorced their woodworker husbands and just wanted to sell off their stuff to get rid of it. Remember it's cheaper to keep her, fortunately I got a good one :)

That's so funny. 20 years ago I gave my X half the appraised value of my tools and shop.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.

Al B Thayer 12-29-2013 11:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joedad3

No real experience and no tools yet. I am taking a class on finish carpentry which will get into cuts angles that sort of stuff. I can find anywhere local where I can take like shop classes. There seems to be no financing in the area for adult classes where I can get some hands on time. My father has a shopsmith he no longer uses. I'm gonna start with that and see where I can go.

Read up on the safety aspects that pertain to the ShopSmith. Some things are difficult and can be down right dangerous.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.

CaptainMarvel 12-29-2013 11:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al B Thayer (Post 557066)
Come on Ryan. Your putting words in my posts that aren't there. The bottom line is when someone gives bad advise to a beginner about cheapo tools and then tries to pass them off as, "just as good". You know and I know they aren't. Frank's experiences are anecdotal and true for him.

They are true for me too, as well as a good number of others I both know and have read reviews from. Not so "anecdotal" as you might otherwise like to depict. Also, You seem to be missing the point of both mine, Franks and Ryan's comments . . . that the beginning woodworker need not go into debt to buy the best of the best right from the start. What if he or she decides - after trying out some projects - that woodworking is not for them? Personally, I would rather recommend that one give it a shot with a Harbor Freight Buscuit Joiner at $55 than have them spend $200+ for a Porter Cable Buscuit Joiner while that person learns, practices and decides if woodworking is something they do and will enjoy for a long time.

The situation is similar to that of a young person learning a musical instrument for the first time. A novice/beginning drummer does not go out an buy himself a top-of-the-line DW Collectors Series drumkit . . . they pick up a Pearl Export or Fusion kit and practice/learn on it until the time comes when he are proficient enough to upgrade to a kit worthy of his developed skill. (Or, he can build his own high-end custom kit) ;)


side note:
Yes, I am a drummer - been playing for 34 yrs. :icon_cool:




Quote:

Originally Posted by Al B Thayer (Post 557066)
BTW. I bought a cheapo router a few months ago. The little tiny Ridgid. I just love it. Has a little light. Has a soft start and 7 speed settings. Fits in my hand well and I love the switch. Would I recommend it? Not without a disclaimer. It's a throw away. But I really love it, so far.

You love it ... It's been working for you ... But you would not recommend it - presumably because it's not a higher-end product ???

I'm sorry - and with all due respect - that simply does not make any logical sense to me whatsoever. High-priced/High-end tools does not a quality woodworker make ....
just as a top-of-the-line drum kit does not a quality drummer make.

Al B Thayer 12-30-2013 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptainMarvel
They are true for me too, as well as a good number of others I both know and have read reviews from. Not so "anecdotal" as you might otherwise like to depict. Also, You seem to be missing the point of both mine, Franks and Ryan's comments . . . that the beginning woodworker need not go into debt to buy the best of the best right from the start. What if he or she decides - after trying out some projects - that woodworking is not for them? Personally, I would rather recommend that one give it a shot with a Harbor Freight Buscuit Joiner at $55 than have them spend $200+ for a Porter Cable Buscuit Joiner while that person learns, practices and decides if woodworking is something they do and will enjoy for a long time.

The situation is similar to that of a young person learning a musical instrument for the first time. A novice/beginning drummer does not go out an buy himself a top-of-the-line DW Collectors Series drumkit . . . they pick up a Pearl Export or Fusion kit and practice/learn on it until the time comes when he are proficient enough to upgrade to a kit worthy of his developed skill. (Or, he can build his own high-end custom kit) ;)

side note:
Yes, I am a drummer - been playing for 34 yrs. :icon_cool:

You love it ... It's been working for you ... But you would not recommend it - presumably because it's not a higher-end product ???

I'm sorry - and with all due respect - that simply does not make any logical sense to me whatsoever. High-priced/High-end tools does not a quality woodworker make ....
just as a top-of-the-line drum kit does not a quality drummer make.

Why do you read so much into my post and yet still miss the point? I guess I answered my own question.

Who Am I to recommend any tool that has no track record, of which I have read no reviews? Tantamount to speach from the anal pore wouldn't you say. It may break tomorrow. Gees.

Al

Nails only hold themselves.


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