Built-in Bookshelves...how close to heat? - Woodworking Talk

arobin · 07-05-2009, 09:04 PM

We planned on having bookshelves built-in along the majority of the space of two walls (beneath windows). But our plans have been thwarted because we have discovered we can't adequately heat the addition with ductwork heating and therefore must use baseboard heating. (Long story.)

So my question is this...is it possible to install baseboard heating beneath the bookshelves...like in the kick space area...and not run in to problems with ruining the shelving with the heat (or causing a fire)? Maybe just make a bigger kick space area? Is there any way to retain the bookshelf idea?

Sorry if this is a very ignorant question. I know about NOTHING on woodwork.

woodnthings · 07-05-2009, 09:11 PM

Either way the heating elements rely on convection to circulate the heated air...heated air mores upward and is replaced by cooler air from the floor, a continuous cycle. To obstruct the free flow of air would signficantly alter the efficiency of the heating system. A really good place to ask this question would be: www.diychat.com where there are heating experts who can offer their advice. Notice the black tabs at the very top above that says DIY Forum takes you right there. good luck on this and go for the poplar on the addition, only 115 ft

bill
It could be a simple as leaving a gap behind the book shelves for the heated air to move upward. My Guess would be a least 1"...?

arobin · 07-05-2009, 10:30 PM

To woodnthings: Hey, thanks! I'll check out the DIY site and poplar as well. Electric radiant is the kind I was speaking of, actually.

snowi · 07-06-2009, 01:20 AM

Check your local building code, I know that they make an "under cabinet (electric) heater" just for your application. It discharges trough the front grill, on your kick plate.

Just my toughts

Ralph

arobin · 07-07-2009, 04:11 AM

To snowi: Thanks! I'll check that out. That would be SUCH a great alternative if it works with local code!

woodnthings · 07-07-2009, 07:18 AM

Grainger Supply has them: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...toekick+heater They are expensive and costly to operate. Would a wall mounter furnace (electric or gas ) serve you better? I have a vertical electric that fits between the studs.
Like this one: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...L1=Furnaces%2C

Or Like these: http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/wwg...ic+wall+heater

bill

GeorgeC · 07-07-2009, 07:39 AM

Is the addition already constructed? Are you talking about something in planning or do you already have the addition and have discovered after the fact that you need additional heating?

G

woodnthings · 07-07-2009, 08:22 AM

Separate thread posted by arobin:

Unwanted knotty pine - what to do?

I'm sick. The builder was told the trim in our new addition was to mimic the trim in the rest of the house as much as possible. He tried to talk us into knotty pine and said it would be a "snug cabin feel." We made it clear our house is not a cabin, it is a large farmhouse over 137 years old with beautiful ornate oak trim throughout. What did he install? Knotty pine! This is in a 16x22 addition...the biggest room in the whole house, with 7 windows each 3 feet wide. The pine not only has tons of knots but also cracks and holes where the knots have fallen out. The sills are already gouged and marred with tools that were set on them and one sill is cracked - it is so soft. Then the guy ended up abandoning the job. We were going to paint the trim white anyway. Should we just paint or have it totally redone? What is involved with painting knotty pine? Surely MUCH filler will have to be used. Yes, I've cried over this.

Bob156235 · 07-10-2009, 05:00 PM

I did it! In the section of toe-kick where the heater resides, I made deeper to accomadate the heater depth and the overall height was increased as well (7" as I recall).

I placed a peice of sheet metal, the length of the heater, behind the heater brackets as I fastened them to the toe-kick backer and it extends up over the heater curling toward the front and stops short of the cabinet face (under the deck). During cold months when the heater is active, the cabinet doors above the heater feel only slightly warm to touch, yet the room is filled with heat as expected.

Looking back (to be extra safe), I should have inserted a layer of foil insullation (the type used to wrap ducts) behind the sheet metal to further insulate the cabinet.

Hope this helps ya,
Bob

woodnthings · 07-10-2009, 08:43 PM

The above mentioned "toe kick" heater which was designed for this application or a radiant strip heater? Codes may specify the distance to a combustible above a radiant heater. I donno?

It would be best to check this out before prceeding.

bill

arobin · 07-18-2009, 01:54 AM

woodnthings: Cool…I know someone that works at Grainger. Thanks! But bummer that they are costly to operate. Ugh. Unfortunately we can’t use a vertical electric because the walls and roof are made of SIPS Insulspan panels.

GeorgeC: Yes, it is already constructed to the point of the drywall being almost done and trim being almost done. No flooring yet…just subfloor…2 of them actually (a second on top of the first since the poured cement foundation was too short and the first subfloor didn’t make the addition floor so it would be even with the original structure). We planned on it being heated but the contractor didn’t figure that into HIS plans. We were too ignorant to know that he was ignoring us about the heat. Now our addition won’t pass final inspection because of 7 code violations and 1 workmanship violation, the contractor walked off the job and we are trying to figure out our options. The heating contractors I’ve talked to so far seem to all want to sell us THEIR system (even as far as wanting us to switch to a different furnace) and so I’m trying to find out if there are other less conventional options.

woodnthings: Thanks for the help in the explanation. Incidentally, we were in court Thursday as witnesses for the state against the builder but he decided he wanted to be represented by counsel after all, so the hearing was rescheduled. An addition that was supposed to be done in just over a month has been almost three years incomplete. (Sorry…just freshly frustrated and felt like mentioning it).

Bob156235: Cool! I’m glad that is working for you. Thanks for posting. If we chose that option we’d have a contractor install it so (hopefully) they would do it according to code and with adequate safety measures. It’s just nice to know someone’s actually tried this. How big is the room? How many heaters did you use and how long? What kind of wood are the cabinets? What kind of finish? What is stored in there?

woodnthings: Good question. Well certainly check this out before proceeding. TOO MUCH has gone wrong already to blunder ahead without knowing what we are doing. We’ve learned our lesson.

woodnthings · 07-18-2009, 08:12 AM

You can get wall mounted space heaters like for bathrooms, workspaces and such that are surface mounted on the wall, not inbetween the studs, do not require venting, since they are electric.
Others are free standing, I use these to heat my workshop, and others mount on the ceiling, a little unsightly for a living space. What is the understructre of the addition? Crawl space, slab, basement? This construction detail will either give you more options or in the case of a slab, limit them. An above the ceiling forced air system will work unless the ceiling is a cathedral. You need to consult with several good heating and cooling dealers or contractors who you can trust. Have them come out and get different bids.

bill

arobin · 07-19-2009, 03:27 PM

woodnthings: It’s a concrete capped crawlspace just over 2’ crawl room. There are 2 subfloors, one on top of the other, so that eliminates alternatives like radiant heating from hot water coils under the floor. It is a cathedral ceiling, so that’s a problem. Code says no free standing space heaters are allowed. We can use one additional run from our furnace into a vent but because of all the bends that are required for it to get where it needs to go, the amount of heat that will come out the vent is not sufficient to heat the room and that is why a second option is required. Someone said infrared is possible but I’ve never heard of infrared heat except to keep a sandwich warm.

Has anyone else experienced infrared heat for a home?