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post #1 of 14 Old 04-14-2008, 12:02 AM Thread Starter
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Blum hinge question

I'm building new bathroom cabinets for my house and am using 1/2" overlay 105 degree blum faceframe cup hinges. I've never used this type of hinge, and am loving how easy they are to install. However, when I installed my first door just to show the wife how they'd look, I noticed a problem.

There's a 3/16" gap between the back of the door and the face of the faceframe, and I think it looks horrible. The hinges adjust in and out, but I have them as far inward as they go.

My faceframes are 3/4" stock.

Any suggestions? Is this big of a space normal?
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post #2 of 14 Old 04-14-2008, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
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FYI, in the right picture the top of the door does not have a full 1/2" overlay because I held it down for crown mouling. So the black line you can see is due to the angle the picture was taken at, but it is the bottom edge of the face frame. This part of the door has 1/4" overlay, but isn't part of the problem I'm having.
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post #3 of 14 Old 04-14-2008, 08:04 AM
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All of the kitchens that I retrofitted euro FF hinges there was a gap regardless of brand. I think the problem in the engineering is the little tabs in front of the FF mounting plate. In order to not allow any metal to metal contact, the backspacing didn't allow the hinge to slide back to the point that it would hit the tabs. If it did it would cause a fulcrum for leverage to offset the hinge.

The tabs are there for a fool proof method for mounting the plates to the FF. There are different types of mounting plates. Some have just one mounting screw on the edge of the FF. Others have a mounting plate that is 90 deg, called a wrap-around, with an edge screw and rear screw holes to screw to the rear of the FF.

I have done two things to correct the problem. The first was to cut off the tabs so the FF plate could be mounted further back on the FF.

The second option is to knife mark the tabs with a utility knife or an X-Acto knife, and chisel a groove for the tabs to allow the mounting plate to slide back.

For a wrap-around it may be necessary to shim the back part of the plate to move the plate inward.






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post #4 of 14 Old 04-14-2008, 12:20 PM Thread Starter
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I think I can solve this with my dremel and a cut off wheel! Thanks for the reply cabinetman, I was hoping you'd weigh in!
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post #5 of 14 Old 04-14-2008, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thekctermite View Post
I think I can solve this with my dremel and a cut off wheel! Thanks for the reply cabinetman, I was hoping you'd weigh in!

I'd like to make a suggestion so you won't have a headache down the road. The two tabs are there to also provide securing points besides the mounting screw to prevent twisting or pivoting of the mounting plate. You could drill a hole in the body of the plate to either put in a brad, or better yet a small screw to give 2 points of attachment which will help in keeping the plate from pivoting.

Without another place for attachment, the door could sag downward if the plates do pivot.






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post #6 of 14 Old 04-15-2008, 07:31 AM
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Just a comment not associated with hinges.

An ogee on the perimeter of your door would really punch up the cosmetic impact and reduce the visual weight. I say this from personal experience. My first doors looked exactly like your picture. The only thing to be careful of is that the ogee tool doesn't cut into the hinge cup bore.

Back to the hinges, that gap is required to accomodate the swing of the door on the hinge side. If this is set too close the door edge scrapes on the faceframe. You are using the same hinge I use on all my doors and at first, I was concerned about this condition. I have since come to realize that I was picking out imaginary problems that the client had no concern over. My fix.....add a silicone bumper pad to the handle side of the door to quiet the slam factor and maintain an even gap around the door for that "Clearance by Design" look.

Ed
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post #7 of 14 Old 04-15-2008, 10:37 AM Thread Starter
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I'm going for more of a shaker look, but I agree that the doors have a lot of visual weight. I don't know that I'd like the look of an ogee on a flat panel door...Can't hurt to mock one up though.

Thanks !
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post #8 of 14 Old 04-15-2008, 11:55 AM
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The gap is a design feature of ALL Euro hinges and EDP has the right answer, you are suppose to put "bumpers" on the front edge of the doors. Without a gap the doors cannot swing to open.
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post #9 of 14 Old 04-15-2008, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skymaster View Post
The gap is a design feature of ALL Euro hinges and EDP has the right answer, you are suppose to put "bumpers" on the front edge of the doors. Without a gap the doors cannot swing to open.

That may be so, but I found a Grass hinge that had a much smaller gap. To bad they only sold them in bags of 500 for production shops. This would be the reason why I don't have the part number. A lot of useful info from me tonight, eh? LOL

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post #10 of 14 Old 04-16-2008, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
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That may be so, but I found a Grass hinge that had a much smaller gap. To bad they only sold them in bags of 500 for production shops. This would be the reason why I don't have the part number. A lot of useful info from me tonight, eh? LOL

Different brands have different gaps. It's not an engineering revelation that a gap is needed to prevent door scraping. Some hinge/plate combinations have very large gaps. The FF hinge that gets screwed to the face of the FF has one of the largest...I've seen 1/4" for some brands. There is no reducing that gap.

As a standard of practice I always use a door bumper, and pick one of a thickness that equalizes the position of the doorside opposite the hinge. For inset (flush) doors, either a stop is figured into the design, or a touch latch, magnetic catch, or friction catch, would be used which could be adjusted for the closing depth.

In order to minimize the gap between the door and the FF, my previous suggestions will give a starting point to adjust the door all the way in, and then allow it to be adjusted out to a minimum clearance. Some hinges may have to have their cup holes drilled closer to the edge of the door to allow opening clearance. I've had some that worked best having the hole 1/32" from the edge. That sounds close, but making samples solves the problem.






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post #11 of 14 Old 04-16-2008, 02:04 PM
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A final thought from me,

Those Blum hinges have a screw that acts as a cam to adjust the gap you are concerned about. Give it a twist and you'll see.

Ed
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post #12 of 14 Old 04-17-2008, 02:36 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edp View Post
Those Blum hinges have a screw that acts as a cam to adjust the gap you are concerned about. Give it a twist and you'll see.

Ed
Correct, but they're adjusted for the smallest gap possible, which is still too big to look normal.
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post #13 of 14 Old 04-18-2008, 01:51 PM
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thekctermite.
These are the hinges I use for face frame applications.
The are more adjustable.


Blum hinge question-blum-cliptop-hinges.jpg

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post #14 of 14 Old 05-17-2008, 09:31 PM
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thekctermite: The Blum 38N series hinge you use is same as I use all the time You will not get 0 space, however I can get em to about 1/8; Partially close door till the edge of door is next to frame then use the adjustment to pull door in until it almost touches the frame, that is closest you can get em unless you modify the door edge into a radius or champher and drill holes another mm farther out, towards the front edge. That way you get the door approx 1/8 closer to frame and then have all the adjustment left in the hinge

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